DHEA + AI instead of TRT / Marcus Gitterle

[bizzactiondrive]

Hello Guys.

I have my own important reason to not get back on any exogenous T that will shut me down.

Due a medicinal genetic condition, i must be able to hop off the extra T anytime, PCR meds are also rulled out.

i hate to jump out cold. Did it once and it was not nice, even i got the levels back to the lowish kind they were before and also could double it from 200 to 400 with a lot of minerals and vitamins.

i jumped over an article from an MD called Marcus Gitterle.

Dont know if links are tolarated but you can google his name with additional "DHEA"

This guy clames that he puts his patients on DHEA + microgramm dosages of Letro

25-100mg DHEA + 25-100mcg Letro

Starting with the lowest of each and adjusting through bloodwork.

any experiences or opinions about this?

i really would like to get the numbers constant back up to 600-800

 

[Shawn]

i just read the article. i too, have low DHEA. he is stating that consumption of oral DHEA will always increase testosterone levels but in my research (i have never used DHEA but plan to soon), that just isn't the case with everyone. some men do not get any increase in T at all, just E and DHT. for some men who are on TRT only, it may increase DHEA as well. when i was on HRT, my DHEA was actually in the mid-range 6 years ago. I stopped later that year. a recent serum test reveals my DHEA-S is 110 (range 93 - 415).

It's worth a try for us since we both do not want to go back on TRT (i used HCG with it so HRT in my case). i've used femara 20 years ago when I did cycles but arimidex for me suffices. you don't need to compound any of it either. Just take 10 arimidex pills (or femara if you already have it), and suspend it in 10ml vodka. Now draw up 10 units on an insulin syringe. That's 100mcg. Start there and work up. If I take 200mcg, its too much. this is for when I did 20mg testosterone shots every other day but I haven't done that in years, been off and I'm at about 300-340ng total test (one test last year showed I was 204ng!) and my free test isn't that great either.

Also keep in mind he is referring to DHEA that is prescribed. none of this OTC crap that isn't regulated. supp companies have been found to contain low or no DHEA or who knows, some that are overdosed. i believe this is why many people have bad sides from it. Also they use too much and get too great of an E2 increase.

 

[bizzactiondrive]

Hello Shawn.

Thanks for participating in this thread.

What Ive researched, at most people a huge part of the DHEA supplementation will be transfered trough the Estrogen pathway.

This is where the idea of the estrogen blocker microdosage plays a role.
What i think is that he wants to claim that through blocking estrogen he can redirect more DHEA through the androgen pathways.

There is also a affect on androgenic levels only because of blocking estrogen on men who are not using exogenous Testosteron.
Because when the body adopts to the new situation with low Estrogen he is sending signals to lh & fsh that he needs more estrogen.
Resulting in higher lh fsh and therefore higher T levels.
While Estrogen levels should stay around baseline.

Strangely there are almost no positive reports on AI monotherapy longterm.
Also studys claim the effect is just on paper but not in terms of wellbeing.

I will go with the dry methode mix it with some fillers and stay with letro.
As it seems to have the potential to bring the more harmless occular sides compaired to the others in terms of studie results.

I Will start with 25mg DHEA and 25mcg Letro per day.

 

[Shawn]

Yes that theory does in fact sound plausible. just like with TRT, dosing is critical. if i had to go back on HRT, i couldn't use more than 20mg test enanthate in one shot every other day, better 10mg daily. this results in very little conversion. i believe the same holds true to DHEA.

i've read too many accounts where men give up on DHEA because they noticed too many side effects from it, all the side effects of downstream metabolites of testosterone itself. even from women. they are the common: hair loss, aggression, acne, the feeling of being stimulated (these are the DHT ones) and for men, the estrogen, we all know about them.

i believe that if people understood the mechanism of how dosing is more important than anything, they would re-attempt. if you have low DHEA, you have to use DHEA, there is no "i couldn't tolerate it" philosophy. either they are on too much or getting too much of the downstream metabolic conversion into DHT and estrogen.

personally, my estrogen is low. if i dont use deer antler, it falls below the bottom range. i eat all organic because this country's food industry sucks. you have to spend a lot of money just to eat what other countries have as normal. if you eat conventional meat or chicken, it will increase estrogen and some natural organic foods just have a lot of estrogen in it by default such as coconut oil, flaxseeds, avocados, etc i avoid these foods for that reason.

for this reason, I'll avoid using an AI as much as possible since it isn't very healthy. i'll have to see if i truly need to use an AI while on it because I plan to use the Douglas Labs brand because I heard that is the closest to pharm grade but I may opt to just get a real script instead just to be sure my dose is correct. this brand is not available in stores. It must be ordered online so not exactly "OTC". This brand doses them very low at 5mg sublingually and I'm going to start at 1.25mg (1/4 of the pill) mid-afternoon. i also don't weigh a lot and am highly sensitive (and a great responder) to just about any herb or drug out there.

I read you do not want to use DHEA early because it will reduce cortisol. they seem to oppose each other. if you do take it early and get fatigued or tired, its lowering cortisol too much. cortisol is higher in the morning and low in the evenings. some men use DHEA at night before bed but others just can't sleep if they do that. you'll need to find your sweet spot. me too.

I forgot to mention another imporant component. He states he hasn't met anyone who didn't reach optimum testosterone levels given this protocol is followed as advised. However, only some of the testosterone men produce comes from DHEA. The majority of it is in fact produced by the testes. For women, 100% of their testosterone is produced from DHEA. This is why I'd like to find more of his patients who follow this regimen because I don't believe it's true but I hope it is because it would solve all my problems.

 

[sammmy]

The AI by itself does increase the free T by reducing T conversion to E.

The role of DHEA is not clear because it doesn't increase T in men, it converts to E mostly, which shouldn't be affected by the AI because it does not work directly on E.

The effects of AI or DHEA on other hormones or systems are not well studied and it is possible that they may have other unrecognized effects.