slicktop
Active Member
I'm going to start this off by admitting this doesn't make a lot of scientific sense- what I'm going to say is purely anecdotal and nothing more than my own experience, but just in case it can help someone else later on down the line, I'm going to put this out for discussion. This'll be a little long so I can get the details in, but I'll give you a pretty simple TDLR: enanthate has been a significant improvement over cypionate for me when it comes to cardio endurance.
I've been on TRT for a little over a year now (December 2018) and have had generally good results. When I began, I was lifting weights 5 days a week, running 2-3 days a week, eating a healthy diet, counting calories, all that. I was just about to turn 41. I felt pretty decent in general but saw very little progress in the gym and couldn't seem to get my waist as small as I wanted. I was 41, so I expected a little difficulty in that department, but my gym progress just wasn't there. I was due for a physical anyways and asked my doc to run my testosterone along with the typical cholesterol panel, etc. for us 40 year olds. My testosterone came back at 187 on the Quest total T test, so my doc told me to come back in and have it ran again. This time it was at 308, estradiol at 17. At this point he tells me that my insurance wouldn't cover it since I hit above 250 the second time (yeah, really) but that it was probably the same cost or less with a GoodRx coupon, and he thought I was a good candidate to try testosterone therapy. I figured, what the heck. I read like three different books and started lurking around here between that first and second blood test, and had already made up my mind that I wanted to do twice weekly shots at a 3.5 day spacing, so when he wanted to start me on 140mg of cypionate once a week, I asked about splitting the dose and he was fine with it, so that's where I started. No ancillaries- he didn't want to prescribe any kind of AI unless necessary. About 10 days in I hit the "honeymoon" phase and just felt like teenage Superman. I was on top of the world. A couple weeks after that, my runs started to go downhill. I used to be able to run 3 miles without a problem, but all the sudden my calf muscles were turning into concrete at 2 miles. Then one and a half. Then one. Then I couldn't run half a mile. Then the hot flashes came and I got moody. So I called in and insisted on getting another blood test, cause I knew something wasn't right. I was at 1543 total t (again, Quest numbers) and estradiol was 93! He decides he wants me to stop cold turkey for a month, re-retest, and then start again at a higher dosage. I asked about the AI since I didn't think a "restart" was necessary, but he said no. Ok. So one month later I test at 218T/31 E and my cardio endurance had returned. So at this point I restarted back at 40mg E3.5D but felt the hot flashes returning and my cardio endurance dropping again. I started taking DIM 3x a day since it was all I could get my hands on. This is when I decided to contact Defy, since I was pretty sure the AI wouldn't be a problem with them and as I educated myself more, I was getting concerned that my GP wasn't looking at other hormone indicators. In late March I had full blood work done by LabCorp and my first consult with Defy. My total T was at 976, free T at 19.5, estradiol at 47.1. Everything else pretty much in range so I won't bore you with that, except that my IGF-1 was 425 in a range of 75-216. So they wanted thyroid hormones tests done as well, which later came back ok but with a slightly low t3. At this point they moved my protocol back to .35mg of cypionate twice a week, .125mg of anastrazole 2x a week, 500IU of HCG 2x a week, plus DHEA. When the thyroid test came back they added generic cytomel as well. Since I now had anastrozole, I didn't think the DIM was necessary so I quit taking it, only to have pretty much the same high E symptoms (hot flashes, moodiness, water retention). So I increased the anastrozole for two weeks to 4x a week and got mile relief. Bumped it up to 250 a day three days a week and got a little more relief, and then read that DIM does a better job of getting estrogen out of the blood stream, and anastrozole helps to stop the conversion- two different actions- so I add the DIM back in. A week later I finally felt "right" and stayed on this protocol for a few months. I was finally making progress in the gym and felt more "clear headed" than I had in years. Everything seemed to be working great except that my cardio endurance never returned to my non-TRT levels. Well, I never wanted to look like a marathon runner anyways so I just accepted it and moved on. Fast forward to a July - at this point I had moved myself to daily cypionate 20mg shots and was keeping my estrogen in check with WAY less AI and still felt great, still made good progress in the gym, but never really got my running legs back. My calves and back would just HURT after a mile, and I'd have to stop and stretch just to continue, something that I never had to do pre TRT. Total T was running at 1067, free T at 21.2, estradiol at 28.1. Everything else seemed good. In November of 2019 I was due for a refill of testosterone, so I figured, why not try enanthate? I'm on daily shots now, don't really need a longer ester. I had read somewhere else (not here) of someone having good results with it and similar problems as I with running, so after talking it over with Defy they said sure, go for it. Same dosage as before, no other changes whatsoever. Right before Christmas, I decided to lace up my running shoes again (I had changed my focus solely to lifting at this point) and see what I could do and ran a mile and a half with no problems. Great! Couple days later tried two, no problem whatsoever. Let my legs rest a couple days and did 3 miles without having any of my previous problems! Now like I said, none of this makes sense. It could be a placebo effect, it could be something else, I have no idea. But it has been absolutely profound for me, and it's great to be able to do a 5K without looking like a wimp again. If anyone has had similar issues, I'd love to hear about them! For anyone else, I know this is crazy, so feel free to ask me anything.
I've been on TRT for a little over a year now (December 2018) and have had generally good results. When I began, I was lifting weights 5 days a week, running 2-3 days a week, eating a healthy diet, counting calories, all that. I was just about to turn 41. I felt pretty decent in general but saw very little progress in the gym and couldn't seem to get my waist as small as I wanted. I was 41, so I expected a little difficulty in that department, but my gym progress just wasn't there. I was due for a physical anyways and asked my doc to run my testosterone along with the typical cholesterol panel, etc. for us 40 year olds. My testosterone came back at 187 on the Quest total T test, so my doc told me to come back in and have it ran again. This time it was at 308, estradiol at 17. At this point he tells me that my insurance wouldn't cover it since I hit above 250 the second time (yeah, really) but that it was probably the same cost or less with a GoodRx coupon, and he thought I was a good candidate to try testosterone therapy. I figured, what the heck. I read like three different books and started lurking around here between that first and second blood test, and had already made up my mind that I wanted to do twice weekly shots at a 3.5 day spacing, so when he wanted to start me on 140mg of cypionate once a week, I asked about splitting the dose and he was fine with it, so that's where I started. No ancillaries- he didn't want to prescribe any kind of AI unless necessary. About 10 days in I hit the "honeymoon" phase and just felt like teenage Superman. I was on top of the world. A couple weeks after that, my runs started to go downhill. I used to be able to run 3 miles without a problem, but all the sudden my calf muscles were turning into concrete at 2 miles. Then one and a half. Then one. Then I couldn't run half a mile. Then the hot flashes came and I got moody. So I called in and insisted on getting another blood test, cause I knew something wasn't right. I was at 1543 total t (again, Quest numbers) and estradiol was 93! He decides he wants me to stop cold turkey for a month, re-retest, and then start again at a higher dosage. I asked about the AI since I didn't think a "restart" was necessary, but he said no. Ok. So one month later I test at 218T/31 E and my cardio endurance had returned. So at this point I restarted back at 40mg E3.5D but felt the hot flashes returning and my cardio endurance dropping again. I started taking DIM 3x a day since it was all I could get my hands on. This is when I decided to contact Defy, since I was pretty sure the AI wouldn't be a problem with them and as I educated myself more, I was getting concerned that my GP wasn't looking at other hormone indicators. In late March I had full blood work done by LabCorp and my first consult with Defy. My total T was at 976, free T at 19.5, estradiol at 47.1. Everything else pretty much in range so I won't bore you with that, except that my IGF-1 was 425 in a range of 75-216. So they wanted thyroid hormones tests done as well, which later came back ok but with a slightly low t3. At this point they moved my protocol back to .35mg of cypionate twice a week, .125mg of anastrazole 2x a week, 500IU of HCG 2x a week, plus DHEA. When the thyroid test came back they added generic cytomel as well. Since I now had anastrozole, I didn't think the DIM was necessary so I quit taking it, only to have pretty much the same high E symptoms (hot flashes, moodiness, water retention). So I increased the anastrozole for two weeks to 4x a week and got mile relief. Bumped it up to 250 a day three days a week and got a little more relief, and then read that DIM does a better job of getting estrogen out of the blood stream, and anastrozole helps to stop the conversion- two different actions- so I add the DIM back in. A week later I finally felt "right" and stayed on this protocol for a few months. I was finally making progress in the gym and felt more "clear headed" than I had in years. Everything seemed to be working great except that my cardio endurance never returned to my non-TRT levels. Well, I never wanted to look like a marathon runner anyways so I just accepted it and moved on. Fast forward to a July - at this point I had moved myself to daily cypionate 20mg shots and was keeping my estrogen in check with WAY less AI and still felt great, still made good progress in the gym, but never really got my running legs back. My calves and back would just HURT after a mile, and I'd have to stop and stretch just to continue, something that I never had to do pre TRT. Total T was running at 1067, free T at 21.2, estradiol at 28.1. Everything else seemed good. In November of 2019 I was due for a refill of testosterone, so I figured, why not try enanthate? I'm on daily shots now, don't really need a longer ester. I had read somewhere else (not here) of someone having good results with it and similar problems as I with running, so after talking it over with Defy they said sure, go for it. Same dosage as before, no other changes whatsoever. Right before Christmas, I decided to lace up my running shoes again (I had changed my focus solely to lifting at this point) and see what I could do and ran a mile and a half with no problems. Great! Couple days later tried two, no problem whatsoever. Let my legs rest a couple days and did 3 miles without having any of my previous problems! Now like I said, none of this makes sense. It could be a placebo effect, it could be something else, I have no idea. But it has been absolutely profound for me, and it's great to be able to do a 5K without looking like a wimp again. If anyone has had similar issues, I'd love to hear about them! For anyone else, I know this is crazy, so feel free to ask me anything.
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