Clomid while on TRT/HCG

[meanbreen]

This is not something that I am contemplating, but I am just interested in the mechanism. It is known that Clomid is ineffective while on TRT. Is this because the TRT shuts down the LH production in the pituitary? A common thing to happen is for Clomid user's SHBG to rise while on Clomid. This certainly happened in my case. If you were to take clomid while on TRT, would your SHBG be effected, or would Clomid have 0% effect on your body, essentially the same as taking a sugar pill?

Thanks, having a debate with someone!

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

If you were to take clomid while on trt, you would still experience all of clomid's effects except for the testosterone boost. Clomid in and of itself behaves like an estrogen in some tissues and an as estrogen receptor antagonist in others. This means that regardless of your LH production, those receptors will be acted upon by clomid. Since elevated SHBG from SERMS occurs as a byproduct of their estrogenic effects, there is a chance that your SHBG may still rise, but without a concurrent rise in actual estradiol levels, it's hard to say. And yes, testosterone supplementation will eventually shut down your LH as a result of negative feedback, even in the absence of estradiol. Clomid's stimulatory effects are too weak to counter this hard shutdown.

 

[meanbreen]

Thanks for your input. Yeah I am just wondering if that would be an option for low shbg guys like myself.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for your input. Yeah I am just wondering if that would be an option for low shbg guys like myself.

I do recall Dr. Saya mentioning something along those lines, Clomid in low SHBG guys on TRT. I haven't searched, though.

Found it!

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...er-By-Mike-Gaiso&p=63621&viewfull=1#post63621

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Thanks for your input. Yeah I am just wondering if that would be an option for low shbg guys like myself.

I do not think it is worth adding clomid to a testosterone protocol. It is already challenging enough to nail down either a clomid/testosterone protocol alone, and combining the two would be a hellish process with too many unpredictable/unforseeable variables. It'd be like drinking gasoline to get drunk off of the ethanol content. In some cases, low SHBG is a result of some sort of illness or condition, like fatty liver. In other cases, there's really not a whole lot you can do. I took clomid for about 6 weeks and my SHBG (which is quite low) actually went down a couple of points. I don't think anyone is going to get much of a boost from it. I know Dr Saya has done it before, but I wonder what the efficacy is.

 

[johndoesmith]

I do not think it is worth adding clomid to a testosterone protocol. It is already challenging enough to nail down either a clomid/testosterone protocol alone, and combining the two would be a hellish process with too many unpredictable/unforseeable variables. It'd be like drinking gasoline to get drunk off of the ethanol content. In some cases, low SHBG is a result of some sort of illness or condition, like fatty liver. In other cases, there's really not a whole lot you can do. I took clomid for about 6 weeks and my SHBG actually went down a couple of points. I don't think anyone is going to get much of a boost from it.

It seems as if clomid raises SHBG in those who don't need it, and in those who do, it doesn't.

I was chatting with a nurse practitioner friend who believes that the body adjusts SHBG due to some unknown reason beyond our understanding, potentially as some immunity related defense mechanism.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

What interests me is the role of SHBG beyond binding sex hormones. I also wonder if it is true that the only testosterone that matters is free testosterone. Based on the information we have regarding shbg and bioavailable testosterone, it doesn't really make any sense that low SHBG levels would diminish the therapeutic effects of restoring testosterone. I also wonder if many of the guys with low SHBG actually had normal/healthy free testosterone with a low total before trt, and didn't experience relief after treatment because testosterone was never actually an issue.

 

[johndoesmith]

What interests me is the role of SHBG beyond binding sex hormones. I also wonder if it is true that the only testosterone that matters is free testosterone. Based on the information we have regarding shbg and bioavailable testosterone, it doesn't really make any sense that low SHBG levels would diminish the therapeutic effects of restoring testosterone. I also wonder if many of the guys with low SHBG actually had normal/healthy free testosterone with a low total before trt, and didn't experience relief after treatment because testosterone was never actually an issue.

SHBG is a transport protein. It shuttles testosterone around to the places it needs to be, not just binds testosterone up making it useless.

There is the free hormone hypothesis vs the free hormone transport hypothesis which is exactly what you just said, is free testosterone the only hormone that matters?

Personally, I believe the free hormone transport hypothesis applies moreso with testosterone.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some men have mental/psychological issues that are falsely attributed to testosterone, so this may be why TRT "doesn't work" for some guys.

 

[madman]

What interests me is the role of SHBG beyond binding sex hormones. I also wonder if it is true that the only testosterone that matters is free testosterone. Based on the information we have regarding shbg and bioavailable testosterone, it doesn't really make any sense that low SHBG levels would diminish the therapeutic effects of restoring testosterone. I also wonder if many of the guys with low SHBG actually had normal/healthy free testosterone with a low total before trt, and didn't experience relief after treatment because testosterone was never actually an issue.

Total Testosterone consists of Free Testosterone (2-3%)/Testosterone bound to SHBG (45%)/Testosterone bound to other proteins mainly albumin (50%), testosterone is loosely bound to albumin so testosterone bound to albumin + free testosterone = Bioavailable Testosterone which is available to tissues whereas testosterone that is tightly bound to SHBG is biologically inactive. Total T is still important as the higher the total the higher the percentage of weakly bound testosterone to albumin which is usable by the cells.

 

[madman]

What interests me is the role of SHBG beyond binding sex hormones. I also wonder if it is true that the only testosterone that matters is free testosterone. Based on the information we have regarding shbg and bioavailable testosterone, it doesn't really make any sense that low SHBG levels would diminish the therapeutic effects of restoring testosterone. I also wonder if many of the guys with low SHBG actually had normal/healthy free testosterone with a low total before trt, and didn't experience relief after treatment because testosterone was never actually an issue.

http://blog.insidetracker.com/sex-hormone-binding-globulin-new-science-questions-old-beliefs