I have made my views of clomid known, at least my initial views, while on TRT at 200mg/week. Within the next few days or weeks, I will be starting my first "cycle" outside of TRT, with nandrolone deconate 300mg/wk and test cyp 200mg/week. It seems irrefutable that 300mg of deca a week will most certainly shut a man down. Not to mention the test cyp with it. So, If i were to take Clomid concurrently, at say 25mg/day, and the lab work showed my LH and FSH to be WNL's (sperm sample optimal but $), wouldn't is show that the clomid is working, despite being "shutdown"? Or would it be better if i started say 4 weeks after starting the deca, to give it time to shut me down? The concurrent test cyp would keep my sex drive alive whilst waiting for the shutdown. I would have no problem doing that. I plan to monitor my proloactin, but from what i can tell at 300mg and only 200mg test, i do not think it will be necessary. Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting case study. The only "unknowns" are the deca and the clomid. They are non Rx so their quality could be an issue. I see my Dr. on tuesday and considering just asking him for the 25mg of clomid a day to keep my testicles since it seems to be working, instead of going to HCG. That would ensure the quality control of the clomid. To me, it would be interesting, and something i would like to share. But if no one would be interested, or if it is a dumb idea, i would just keep it to myself. Plus, i would like others ideas on controls etc. to make it as valuable as possible. A lot of you are able to guinea pigs based on health issues. I do not have that "luxury", but I want to learn as i try to meet all of my strength and muscle goals that i have had since a teenager that i have been unable to meet naturally. With all of the contrasting information on clomid while being "shutdown", i thought this could be useful.
Could Clomid work, while on Deca: Anyone interested?
- Thread starter Disco41
- Start date
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I would not use it but would love to hear your experience and see your blood work a month into Clomid+nandrolone+T
Here are some interesting articles that you may want to read to debate if blocking estrogen receptors while on androgens may be a good thing.
Combining Testosterone and Clomid
The Benefits of Estrogen in BodyBuilding
Here are some interesting articles that you may want to read to debate if blocking estrogen receptors while on androgens may be a good thing.
Combining Testosterone and Clomid
The Benefits of Estrogen in BodyBuilding
madman
Super Moderator
Being on trt you will already be shutdown, adding in nandrolone will just compound the issue and cause further dysfunction to the hpta. It will take longer than 4 weeks to reach peak levels due to the longer half life of the decanoate ester. As far as coming across legitimate deca on the black market hope you have a good source as a lot of deca is usually the cheaper testosterone and as far as purity/dosage you will never know unless you were to have your so called medication tested in a lab.
Depending on what kind of strength/muscle gains you are expecting it should be the least of your concerns regarding the benefits of being on trt. Sure being strong/muscular contributes to the bodys health overall but improvement in mood/energy/metabolic function/drive/libido/ed and overall well being is far more important and should be the main reasons for pursuing trt and the use of testosterone in general. Healthy testosterone levels is critical to ones health/function and increased muscle/strength is an added benefit. Too many people get caught up in using/some times abusing hormones to achieve muscle/strength beyond what one can achieve naturally. Like I stated in one of your other posts. Have testosterone levels in a healthy range whether mid to high/normal ranges combined with the proper diet/training protocol would allow most to achieve reasonable gains in muscle/strength.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/281/1/93#sec-9
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That is pretty much my interest. Thank you for the links as well, they do address this issue. HCG would just increase my testosterone and testicular size, making estro sides more likely wouldnt it? That is why i want to try less test than deca. Deca aromotizes much less in that regard. And then see if clomid will also increase test for testicle size and fertility while being "shut down". I have seen such an improvement of testicle size in the past 4 weeks, along with increased libido and energy at 25mg clomid/day. Even after being on 200mg test/wk for a year and sagging testicle skin. Again, my sperm was still within normal back in november, at 9 months at 200mg test/wk. I do note that. So i was not "shut down" back in november, that is to be noted. As of Weds 3/08/17 i have ceased using clomid, and started 500mg deca with my 200mg of test cyp/wk.. My order was changed to 250mg ampules nandrolone deconate 10 vials, instead of the 10ml vial at 300mg/ml i ordered. Also, the pharma is Maha, instead of the ordered Dragon Pharma. From all of the reviews and lab results i can find, Maha is legit thus far. So, instead of the 300 i planned on, i have to either do 250 or 500mg/wk b/c you have to break open the vials. I have decided to go on up to the 500 since i have an excellent natural base and a year of test cyp at 200mg/wk base as well for a base. I plan to do blood work 4/08/17 and see what is says. After 4 weeks of 500mg deca and 200 test cyp, there should be some "shutdown" of LH and FSH. If not, i will wait another 4wks, and then re start the clomid. I did not get a Rx for clomid from my Dr like i had hoped. He is a urologist, I should probably get an endo, for intelligent conversation. He was not even interested in talking about HCG either. My guess is he is 5 years or less from retirement, and really does not GAF. Honestly, after the past 4 months of research, I think i can save money and get legit "gear" and "labs" without a dr. or pharmacy.
After 9 months at 200mg test cyp/wk, my sperm was still viable back in november. So, i was not "shut down" yet. I realize deca will increase that likelihood, esp after 4 plus weeks as it is a 19 nor ester. Thank you.
So, after 4 days w/o clomid, my balls began to hurt again. My case study now has to change b/c i realized I enjoy have my balls back (plus some), and I do not want to loose any of its benefits. So i will continue .25mg EOD while on 500mg deca and 200mg test cyp/wk and will see if clomid will prevent test plus deca from "shutting me down". Still valuable knowledge i would think?
Will be 2 weeks weds on deca durabolin 500mg, and test 200mg/wk. Like i said, did have some testicular pain the past 5 days or so. Still taking clomid 25mg EOD, and no shrinkage seen yet for sure. I sill have a bit of sagging skin but not much.
Side note/Placebo: I have been having great workouts! Placebo most likely, but i will take it!! I did increase some strength today by one rep. Vascularity seems better, but im sure that is placebo as well. I admit, the thought of finally meeting my goals after 23 years of lifting is exciting. I have such a great natural foundation to build on and i am stoked. At my age, i only have a few more years to really kill it and expect much. I thank God every day for all of this.
So, will see if clomid can keep the boys up while doing this. It is tempting to order HCG, but i really want to see if clomid can do it. The main temptation is the testicle pain....When that happens i really dislike that. I have caber, prami, and letrozole on hand if any prolactin symptoms occur.
Side note/Placebo: I have been having great workouts! Placebo most likely, but i will take it!! I did increase some strength today by one rep. Vascularity seems better, but im sure that is placebo as well. I admit, the thought of finally meeting my goals after 23 years of lifting is exciting. I have such a great natural foundation to build on and i am stoked. At my age, i only have a few more years to really kill it and expect much. I thank God every day for all of this.
So, will see if clomid can keep the boys up while doing this. It is tempting to order HCG, but i really want to see if clomid can do it. The main temptation is the testicle pain....When that happens i really dislike that. I have caber, prami, and letrozole on hand if any prolactin symptoms occur.
Just in case anyone is reading. I did have some testicular pain this week, but just enough to remind me to take the .25 clomid EOD , which i have been faithful. In the mornings, i still see just a bit of sagging skin, but it has definitely not increased since adding the 500mg of deca. My LBP has been a bit flared up so that may have attributed to some of the testicle pain as well. I am so busy at work i have not had time to devote to inverting to decompress the lumbar spine like i should have. Either way, no increase in testicular shrinkage, so far...... The workouts still seem to be better, along with vascularity. I must also recognize though that the clomid, like HCG, does increase the natural and that may be what is improving my workouts and libido. I guess until 4 weeks plus, hard to tell, based on the science. I am sure is placebo mixed with the increased test production. Time will tell. I am actually very excited to see if i can keep "my boys" after a 12 week cycle of deca with the cruising test, and clomid .25 EOD.
Sean Reed
Banned
Clomid will have absolutely no effect as long as you are on test or deca. Save it for a pct after you have cleared all esters from your body. Deca hangs out forever. If you are on permanent replacement and thus not in need of a restart Clomid really has nothing to offer you that could be done better with different compounds.
Clomid was originally designed as a treatment for breast cancer, but it is not very good at displacing estro at receptor cites. Nolvadex is far superior.
Clomid very good at restoring the HPTA, but it will take weeks to get to a point where it can work.
The best way to keep testicular function is with low dosed HCG. If you are concerned about estro, an AI like Arimidex is a good choice.
Clomid was originally designed as a treatment for breast cancer, but it is not very good at displacing estro at receptor cites. Nolvadex is far superior.
Clomid very good at restoring the HPTA, but it will take weeks to get to a point where it can work.
The best way to keep testicular function is with low dosed HCG. If you are concerned about estro, an AI like Arimidex is a good choice.
Sean Reed
Banned
This.....^
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