Clomid and Sex Drive / Libido

[LionTamer]

Hi All,

I've been on clomid for a few months and have been noticing some changes in my sex drive and libido. I got on clomid purely to boost my testosterone for mild anabologic effects. My T was already pretty strong at 750 ng/dl. Dr. Saya put me on clomid, 12.5mg per day, and my levels essentially doubled to 1470 ng/dl, and my estradiol shot up to 75 pg/ml. He decided to reduce my clomid to 3x per week and added anastrozole (.25mg per week) to reduce my estradiol. A few weeks later, my T came down to 1,120 and my estradiol to 38.

Once I started the anastrozole, though, I started to notice a sharp reduction in my libido/sex drive. My understanding was that high estrogen levels have that effect, so it's strange that I only started to experience it once the levels came down. This got me concerned, so I got off them altogether. I noticed a week of improvement, then a decline again.

I had the following questions:
1. Would you all recommend that I get off the clomid and anastrozole due to these effects, or is it normal for there to be these changes while you're finding the right balance between testosterone and estrogen?
2. Are these changes to my libido (and tangentially to my erectile health) possibly permanent? I'm always paranoid of having messed myself up for good, so if someone could explain whether my fears are warranted or if everything is likely to go back to normal once I fix everything, that would be appreciated.

Thank you all for your help. Attaching my lab results in case it assists.

@Simbarn

 

[Vince]

Many men do better with higher estrogen levels so I definitely would stop the anastrozole. Continue the clomid. Then see if your libido and sex drive improves again.

 

[Systemlord]

Once I started the anastrozole, though, I started to notice a sharp reduction in my libido/sex drive.

You're probably crushing your estrogen metabolism, estrogen is needed for libido and erectile strength.

You're using the AI to counter the side effects of clomid and I don't think this plan will work.

 

[Systemlord]

Would you all recommend that I get off the clomid and anastrozole due to these effects, or is it normal for there to be these changes while you're finding the right balance between testosterone and estrogen?

I always prefer natural hormones to unnatural drugs/chemicals/toxins.

 

[LionTamer]

Thanks @Vince

@Systemlord , thank you. What's estrogen metabolism? How do I reduce my estradiol levels without crushing my metabolism? What would you recommend in lieu of the anastrozole? My brother mentioned he noticed some mild gynecomastia. Not 100% sure if that's actually the case, but I don't know how realistic it is for me keep my estradiol levels this high. Is there any chance any of this is permanent even after I fix my hormones?

 

[Systemlord]

What's estrogen metabolism?

It all starts with the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, which requires aromatase enzymes but in your case is being partially blocked.

I see your E2 labs, which are what I would consider healthy, only you're affecting a natural process, a hormone pathway that can have negative consequences down the road.

In time you might find your lipids affected, and therefore your cardiovascular system. It is the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via aromatase enzymes that creates fatty esters to maintain a healthy cardiovascular system.

 

[Systemlord]

My brother mentioned he noticed some mild gynecomastia. Not 100% sure if that's actually the case, but I don't know how realistic it is for me keep my estradiol levels this high.

High estrogen in isolation doesn't cause gynecomastia, an imbalance of estrogen, testosterone, proactin and DHT are all factors in gynecomastia flare-ups.

Bodybuilders tend to get gynecomastia when they stop all the gear and levels are crashing creating an imbalance of all these hormones.

 

[LionTamer]

It all starts with the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, which requires aromatase enzymes but in your case is being partially blocked.

I see your E2 labs, which are what I would consider healthy, only you're affecting a natural process, a hormone pathway that can have negative consequences down the road.

In time you might find your lipids affected, and therefore your cardiovascular system. It is the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via aromatase enzymes that creates fatty esters to maintain a healthy cardiovascular system.

Thanks. The E2 levels of around 35 are actually half of what they were before I started the anastrozole. Dr. Saya was the one who recommended I get on it to bring it down when they were around 75.

What's interesting is that I stopped for a bit, then my libido returned, then it went right back down even though I did NOT start taking it again. Any idea what might be happening? I've read that estrogen levels that are too high or too low might have the same effect of erectile dysfunction and low sex drive, so maybe I just need to find the right levels?

 

[LionTamer]

@readalot
@bixt
@BigTex
@DannyLou2676
@Phil Goodman
@DixieWrecked
@Nelson Vergel
@DS3

Any thoughts to share? Including you guys since you were so helpful last time around. Thank you.

 

[bixt]

@readalot
@bixt
@BigTex
@DannyLou2676
@Phil Goodman
@DixieWrecked
@Nelson Vergel
@DS3

Any thoughts to share? Including you guys since you were so helpful last time around. Thank you.

TRT to Supraphysiological Levels for Body Building

Hi All, I'm a male, 32, with normal/solid levels of testosterone (650 ng/dl TT). I've been exercising on and off since I was a teenager but have only been on a proper weightlifting and diet protocol for the past 6 months with a professional bodybuilder with my main goal being to obtain a great...

www.excelmale.com

You started this exercise for "more muscles". How has that been going? Has doubling your T been worth it as far as this original goal went? Post up some pics.

From the old thread:

Clomid 12.5mg to 25mg ED will probably get you to 1200-1500ng/dl easily and no harm to your HPTA. Thats the safest way to test those levels without harm.

As you saw, my predictions were spot on as far as levels go. I hope your "gains" were worth it. (I'm betting there were no significant gains, as I also predicted)

So now please take my new advice....quit this entire exercise. You will go back to your normal self sooner or later.

You have taken a perfectly good libido and f***** with it with the use of AIs. There was nothing wrong with you or your libido prior to this exercise, now you are further complicating it and causing other issues. You are seeking solutions for problems that should should not even exist in the first place.

Please....just....stop.

 

[LionTamer]

@bixt , thanks for your feedback. Yup, I ended up following your advice to take clomid instead of TRT and you were pretty spot on about the outcome it would have on my T levels. As far gains, they were modest, also as expected. I'm decently happy with them, and now just focusing on fat loss. Taking CJC-1295 and ipamorelin combination as well, just to put it all out there.

It seems like the clomid didn't really affect me negatively but it does seem like the anastrozole did. Why is your advice to stop both the clomid and the anastrozole, rather than just the latter? Also, aren't AIs part of the standard protocol when taking TRT?

And if I do just stop the anastrozole but keep the clomid, should I be concerned about my E2 levels being at around 75?

 

[bixt]

should I be concerned about my E2 levels being at around 75?

Yeah, thats pretty high, notwithstanding the estrogenic effects of the zuc in the clomid itself

Also, aren't AIs part of the standard protocol when taking TRT?

Not really, not currently. Theres a LOT of material out there on this very forum for this topic you can search for.

Why is your advice to stop both the clomid and the anastrozole, rather than just the latter

Your E2 is clearly sky high in the ED clomid dose.

Your TT is perhaps 300ng/dl higher than baseline on the 3 x weekly clomid dose. E2 is ok at that dose. I would be happy with that dose for example for fertility or true secondary hypogonadism (which you dont have). BUT - hows about SHBG? Has this been tested before and after? Im guessing its probably much higher by now, leaving FT close to your orignal levels or thereabouts .

I just cant see a case for increasing TT from 750 to 1100 (forgetting we are not even considering FT).

For your orignal goal, which was for muscular purposes, my sincere opinion is that this entire plan is an exercise in futility at best. At worse....well you have already tasted the potential things that could go wrong.

 

[tareload]

For your orignal goal, which was for muscular purposes, my sincere opinion is that this entire plan is an exercise in futility at best. At worse....well you have already tasted the potential things that could go wrong.

@LionTamer

Get out while the gettin' is still reasonably good.

 

[LionTamer]

Your TT is perhaps 300ng/dl higher than baseline on the 3 x weekly clomid dose. E2 is ok at that dose. I would be happy with that dose for example for fertility or true secondary hypogonadism (which you dont have). BUT - hows about SHBG? Has this been tested before and after? Im guessing its probably much higher by now, leaving FT close to your orignal levels or thereabouts .

SHBG before: 37 nmol/L vs. after: 45-47 nmol/L
FT before: 14.8 pg/mL vs. after: 21-23 nmol/L

Thoughts?

 

[tareload]

FT before: 14.8 pg/mL vs. after: 21-23 nmol/L

Check your units. Makes no sense / not consistent with pdf you posted and you are reporting direct RIA fT assay results BTW.

 

[LionTamer]

Check your units. Makes no sense / not consistent with pdf you posted and you are reporting direct RIA fT assay results BTW.

Sorry, here's the correct version with the updated units:
SHBG before: 37 nmol/L vs. after: 45-47 nmol/L
FT before: 14.8 pg/mL vs. after: 21-23 pg/mL

I have 3 separate test results: one from February (before clomid), one from June (after clomid, before anastrozole), one from August (after clomid and anastrozole). The 'before' I wrote above are from June, before clomid, and the 'after' are from June and August, which is why there's a range. The one I posted was the August one. I can post the others as well if you think it'll help.

 

[JRos895]

What did you end up doing?

 

[LionTamer]

What did you end up doing?

Ended up dropping the anastrozole and I'm now back to normal. Still on the clomid and peptides.

 

[JRos895]

Thanks for the update—is your libido good on the Clomid?

 

[LionTamer]

Thanks for the update—is your libido good on the Clomid?

Yes, never had any problems with the clomid, libido or otherwise.