Best time to inject testosterone?

[IndyColts18to88]

For anyone doing daily or every other day shots... does it make any difference to any of you, if you inject in the morning or at night? I know some guys who take bigger shots once or twice a week, say that injecting at night can impact their sleep etc...

But i havent seen much from the guys who do every day or every other day... do you feel any different or have any issues if you take the shot in the morning/at night?

Thanks!!

 

[UCFguy01]

I've noticed no difference with morning or evening. Morning just seems more convenient for me. I don't think it's going to effect how you feel if you pick a different time of day since you're injecting such a small amount. It's a tiny daily dose with no huge peak or trough.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

I've noticed no difference with morning or evening. Morning just seems more convenient for me. I don't think it's going to effect how you feel if you pick a different time of day since you're injecting such a small amount. It's a tiny daily dose with no huge peak or trough.

good to know. Was planning to start today, but was running late this morning...still want to start today, but didnt know if taking my shot tonight after work or before bed would have any negative to it...and then hopefully start with the morning shots tomorrow after i shower etc

I know, i'm over thinking all of this...but there are so many guys on these boards (and others) that seem to have so many issues... i know this is a big step, just starting TRT, so i want to get as much right as i can

 

[Cataceous]

With EOD injections I did experience sleep disturbances if I injected at night. This even though it was testosterone enanthate or cypionate and serum testosterone levels didn't vary between pre-injection draws and day-after-injection draws. I'd conclude that there's still some rise in testosterone in the hours after injections, even with relatively small doses and longer esters.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

With EOD injections I did experience sleep disturbances if I injected at night. This even though it was testosterone enanthate or cypionate and serum testosterone levels didn't vary between pre-injection draws and day-after-injection draws. I'd conclude that there's still some rise in testosterone in the hours after injections, even with relatively small doses and longer esters.

If I remember correctly, you do better with pretty small doses/small weekly totals, right?

I was planning to start with 10mg daily for 6-8 weeks and then get new labs... do you think 10mg before bed would make an impact? if so, i'll just wait until morning...if not, i'll start tonight when i get in from work.

I'm not looking to get into superphysiological levels, just to "replace" what i SHOULD have, at my age (turned 40, yesterday)... levels have been consistently low 300s for a few years now...if i could get into the 600s, i think i would be pretty happy with that (from a health/replacement standpoint). I dont have any issues with erections etc now, and actually am still holding a lot of muscle from years of lifting, even though i've not lifted seriously in about 3 years... my main "side effects" that i notice from low T is just low energy/low motivation and some brain fog/forgetfulness issues.

Even at my low levels, i sleep good and have morning wood most days (as long as i get enough sleep)...i make gains when lifting if i take it seriously. I'm just wanting normal levels for health reasons and hoping that TRT doesnt take away my erection quality lol

 

[slicktop]

If I remember correctly, you do better with pretty small doses/small weekly totals, right?

I was planning to start with 10mg daily for 6-8 weeks and then get new labs... do you think 10mg before bed would make an impact? if so, i'll just wait until morning...if not, i'll start tonight when i get in from work.

Your natural peak (for most men) is around 10AM, so it may make sense to inject at that time if feasible. Honestly, until you start there's no way to know how timing will affect you, but personally it makes no difference to me when I inject, and I mostly do daily shots. Every now and then I get busy and forget a shot; sometimes I double up the next day to make it up, sometimes not. I'm no longer as sensitive to fluctuations as I once was.

Also, even though you didn't ask, 140mg a week could put you at the upper end of physiological when you start out, if not a little above. With the levels you're hoping for, you could find success with 100mg a week. Personally, I had major E2 sides when I started at the same level you're planning on starting at, and I had to take a ton of AI to get feeling right. If I could go back and tell myself what I know now, I would have started at a smaller dose.

Good luck!

 

[Cataceous]

If I remember correctly, you do better with pretty small doses/small weekly totals, right?

I was planning to start with 10mg daily for 6-8 weeks and then get new labs... do you think 10mg before bed would make an impact? if so, i'll just wait until morning...if not, i'll start tonight when i get in from work.

I'm not looking to get into superphysiological levels, just to "replace" what i SHOULD have, at my age (turned 40, yesterday)... levels have been consistently low 300s for a few years now...if i could get into the 600s, i think i would be pretty happy with that (from a health/replacement standpoint). I dont have any issues with erections etc now, and actually am still holding a lot of muscle from years of lifting, even though i've not lifted seriously in about 3 years... my main "side effects" that i notice from low T is just low energy/low motivation and some brain fog/forgetfulness issues.

Even at my low levels, i sleep good and have morning wood most days (as long as i get enough sleep)...i make gains when lifting if i take it seriously. I'm just wanting normal levels for health reasons and hoping that TRT doesnt take away my erection quality lol

I have been experimenting with low TRT doses, and generally liking the results. I'm currently on the equivalent of 44 mg T cypionate. Including testosterone propionate in the mix allows for a lower average dose while preserving a physiological daily peak in serum testosterone, somewhat mimicking what's natural.

Whether or not you can tolerate injections at night is an individual thing. Some guys seem ok with it. Just try it to see if you like it or not. Personally I'd say mornings are preferred, but I can't offer hard evidence that longer esters such as cypionate have unfavorable pharmacokinetics in the setting of evening injections.

I get a little uneasy seeing stories like yours, where the low-T symptoms aren't severe, and TRT is contemplated. This is because TRT is simultaneously restoring some functionality and removing other functionality. My pre-TRT hypogonadal state was so bad that even at its worst, TRT was better. But there are guys who end up worse off overall, though presumably they are overrepresented here in the forum, and are not reflecting the overall satisfaction of guys on TRT.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

Your natural peak (for most men) is around 10AM, so it may make sense to inject at that time if feasible. Honestly, until you start there's no way to know how timing will affect you, but personally it makes no difference to me when I inject, and I mostly do daily shots. Every now and then I get busy and forget a shot; sometimes I double up the next day to make it up, sometimes not. I'm no longer as sensitive to fluctuations as I once was.

Also, even though you didn't ask, 140mg a week could put you at the upper end of physiological when you start out, if not a little above. With the levels you're hoping for, you could find success with 100mg a week. Personally, I had major E2 sides when I started at the same level you're planning on starting at, and I had to take a ton of AI to get feeling right. If I could go back and tell myself what I know now, I would have started at a smaller dose.

Good luck!

I was planning to do 10mg daily...that is only 70mg per week... so you must have misunderstood my post! Where would you think 10mg daily would put me?

 

[IndyColts18to88]

I have been experimenting with low TRT doses, and generally liking the results. I'm currently on the equivalent of 44 mg T cypionate. Including testosterone propionate in the mix allows for a lower average dose while preserving a physiological daily peak in serum testosterone, somewhat mimicking what's natural.

Whether or not you can tolerate injections at night is an individual thing. Some guys seem ok with it. Just try it to see if you like it or not. Personally I'd say mornings are preferred, but I can't offer hard evidence that longer esters such as cypionate have unfavorable pharmacokinetics in the setting of evening injections.

I get a little uneasy seeing stories like yours, where the low-T symptoms aren't severe, and TRT is contemplated. This is because TRT is simultaneously restoring some functionality and removing other functionality. My pre-TRT hypogonadal state was so bad that even at its worst, TRT was better. But there are guys who end up worse off overall, though presumably they are overrepresented here in the forum, and are not reflecting the overall satisfaction of guys on TRT.

well i do have lowish SHBG, so my FT stays in "low normal" even with my TT is below the low normal... if you were me, would you avoid it, since there are no really bad issues? I'm open to that, also... Since becoming a first time dad, about 3 years ago, i've put "me" on the back burner and my diet/exercise etc has been way less than ideal... and my vitamin D is low... i know some guys say taking D3 doesnt do much, but others say that it does... i need to lose about 40lbs (i'm 6'4 270) and my D level was 29 with my last blood work (SHBG was 21).

would you push the lifestyle changes hard, for a good 6 months + and then re-test before starting? Im open to that...but so many guys on this board (and others) are fast to say that at my age, raising it naturally would be wasting time.

 

[Cataceous]

well i do have lowish SHBG, so my FT stays in "low normal" even with my TT is below the low normal... if you were me, would you avoid it, since there are no really bad issues? I'm open to that, also... Since becoming a first time dad, about 3 years ago, i've put "me" on the back burner and my diet/exercise etc has been way less than ideal... and my vitamin D is low... i know some guys say taking D3 doesnt do much, but others say that it does... i need to lose about 40lbs (i'm 6'4 270) and my D level was 29 with my last blood work (SHBG was 21).

would you push the lifestyle changes hard, for a good 6 months + and then re-test before starting? Im open to that...but so many guys on this board (and others) are fast to say that at my age, raising it naturally would be wasting time.

The lifestyle stuff is worth doing regardless, but large improvements in serum testosterone are less common. There are a couple other intermediate things to try that are short of full blown TRT. One is enclomiphene. I'd even start with an unusually low dose of that, say 12.5 mg two or three times a week. You're looking for hints that this is taking you in the right direction. If I didn't notice anything then I would try more typical doses.

A testosterone nasal gel is another interesting option. This would give a more direct taste of higher levels of testosterone without an HPTA shutdown. Natesto is the name brand, and Empower Pharmacy has its own less expensive version.

Looking again at your symptoms "...low energy/low motivation and some brain fog/forgetfulness issues...", I have to remark that I had these same symptoms appear and/or get worse under TRT. Only recently have I started to get them under control with T3, selegiline and various supplements, and by going to more extreme lengths to make my TRT emulate what's natural, including lowering the doses and restoring the suppressed upstream hormones. With all of this I finally have a taste of pre-hypogonadism normalcy.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

The lifestyle stuff is worth doing regardless, but large improvements in serum testosterone are less common. There are a couple other intermediate things to try that are short of full blown TRT. One is enclomiphene. I'd even start with an unusually low dose of that, say 12.5 mg two or three times a week. You're looking for hints that this is taking you in the right direction. If I didn't notice anything then I would try more typical doses.

A testosterone nasal gel is another interesting option. This would give a more direct taste of higher levels of testosterone without an HPTA shutdown. Natesto is the name brand, and Empower Pharmacy has its own less expensive version.

Looking again at your symptoms "...low energy/low motivation and some brain fog/forgetfulness issues...", I have to remark that I had these same symptoms appear and/or get worse under TRT. Only recently have I started to get them under control with T3, selegiline and various supplements, and by going to more extreme lengths to make my TRT emulate what's natural, including lowering the doses and restoring the suppressed upstream hormones. With all of this I finally have a taste of pre-hypogonadism normalcy.

I do know that i'm secondary, as my LH was normal but my FSH was below normal range

 

[IndyColts18to88]

The lifestyle stuff is worth doing regardless, but large improvements in serum testosterone are less common. There are a couple other intermediate things to try that are short of full blown TRT. One is enclomiphene. I'd even start with an unusually low dose of that, say 12.5 mg two or three times a week. You're looking for hints that this is taking you in the right direction. If I didn't notice anything then I would try more typical doses.

A testosterone nasal gel is another interesting option. This would give a more direct taste of higher levels of testosterone without an HPTA shutdown. Natesto is the name brand, and Empower Pharmacy has its own less expensive version.

Looking again at your symptoms "...low energy/low motivation and some brain fog/forgetfulness issues...", I have to remark that I had these same symptoms appear and/or get worse under TRT. Only recently have I started to get them under control with T3, selegiline and various supplements, and by going to more extreme lengths to make my TRT emulate what's natural, including lowering the doses and restoring the suppressed upstream hormones. With all of this I finally have a taste of pre-hypogonadism normalcy.

the lifestyle changes are something i'm working on, anyhow... but with my lack of real symptoms, if you were me, would you start any type of TRT or wait until symptoms actually do come up?

Sorry for all of the questions...just trying to learn as much as i can

 

[Cataceous]

I had to look back at your first post to be reminded that your numbers are pretty low. If I were you I would start with one of the options that doesn't put the HPTA out of business: enclomiphene or testosterone nasal gel. If I had to chose one then I might favor the gel, because it's bioidentical. However, the enclomiphene is easier to take, at most a single capsule daily. A few guys are complaining that gel up the nose isn't very nice. Of course you also have to go by what you can obtain.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

Not really sure where to obtain either. My doctor will only prescribe testosterone cypionate

 

[Cataceous]

There's always Defy Medical, but that will cost some extra time and money versus having your local doctor write a prescription.

 

[UCFguy01]

I'm not sure you're going to feel much benefit from such a low dose. You're at total T 300 now and you system will shut down once you start so you might not end up much higher with only 10mg a day. I'm not saying go super high with the dose but 15mg a day is roughly a 100mg a week and that might get you closer to 800 total test which should then help with your available free T.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm not sure you're going to feel much benefit from such a low dose. ...

You may have a point, but for the wrong reason. It only seems like a low dose because most guys on TRT are overdosing. The average man produces around 6 mg of testosterone per day. 10 mg of testosterone cypionate contains 7 mg of testosterone. But the average man has diurnal variation in his serum testosterone, so assuming we need to match peak levels, and assuming that daily cypionate injections cause nearly constant levels, then we must derate the dose by 20%, yielding an equivalent of 5.6 mg per day. This is only a little below average. However, there is another factor in this case: @IndyColts18to88 is a large man at 6'4" and 270 lbs. There is research demonstrating that the serum testosterone response to a fixed exogenous dose correlates negatively with body mass. I don't recall the figures involved, but assume the dose should be derated by another 25%. This is pushing daily testosterone intake down to around 4 mg, which is getting on the low side. One additional factor is that his SHBG is a little below average, which reduces total testosterone at a fixed exogenous dose. If I had to guess I'd say 10 mg TC per day would put his serum testosterone in the 400s ng/dL. This is still above his recent measurements in the 200s and 300s.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

You may have a point, but for the wrong reason. It only seems like a low dose because most guys on TRT are overdosing. The average man produces around 6 mg of testosterone per day. 10 mg of testosterone cypionate contains 7 mg of testosterone. But the average man has diurnal variation in his serum testosterone, so assuming we need to match peak levels, and assuming that daily cypionate injections cause nearly constant levels, then we must derate the dose by 20%, yielding an equivalent of 5.6 mg per day. This is only a little below average. However, there is another factor in this case: @IndyColts18to88 is a large man at 6'4" and 270 lbs. There is research demonstrating that the serum testosterone response to a fixed exogenous dose correlates negatively with body mass. I don't recall the figures involved, but assume the dose should be derated by another 25%. This is pushing daily testosterone intake down to around 4 mg, which is getting on the low side. One additional factor is that his SHBG is a little below average, which reduces total testosterone at a fixed exogenous dose. If I had to guess I'd say 10 mg TC per day would put his serum testosterone in the 400s ng/dL. This is still above his recent measurements in the 200s and 300s.

Agreed on the above, from everything that I've read over the past few years... but where do you think that would put my Free T, with the lower SHBG? Because Free T is the more important of the two, as far as how you feel, correct? Also (and i know this is argued a lot between members) but some guys also show in labs that whether you go IM or SubQ makes a difference, as well? For example, my cousin does EOD SubQ at 28mg EOD... his latest labs had his total T right at 600, but his free T was only 2 points from the very top of the range. He has never had his SHBG tested...but he isnt a small man, at 6'2 230lbs.

 

[IndyColts18to88]

With all of that said, and my lack of very many "symptoms", and knowing that i am secondary... it has put me back on the fence about starting, and if i do, what dose and if i should do IM/SubQ ...so i'm back at square one.

Would doing TRT and shutting down my HPTA cause more issues than it resolves?

 

[Cataceous]

Agreed on the above, from everything that I've read over the past few years... but where do you think that would put my Free T, with the lower SHBG? Because Free T is the more important of the two, as far as how you feel, correct? Also (and i know this is argued a lot between members) but some guys also show in labs that whether you go IM or SubQ makes a difference, as well? For example, my cousin does EOD SubQ at 28mg EOD... his latest labs had his total T right at 600, but his free T was only 2 points from the very top of the range. He has never had his SHBG tested...but he isnt a small man, at 6'2 230lbs.

If we take seriously my guess about your possible serum testosterone—which we shouldn't—then 450 ng/dL results in Tru-T free T around 16 ng/dL, at the bottom of their healthy normal range of 16-31, but well above where you are currently. Similarly, the Vermeulen free T calculator comes up with 11 ng/dL, which is lowish, but not hypogonadal. Of course the only way to really know is to try it. I'd say the 70% confidence interval on my guess ranges from 300-600 ng/dL.

Disregard the IM versus subQ debate. With daily injections of a longer ester like cypionate I can pretty much guarantee the results are indistinguishable. Use whichever method you like better. Personally I see no reason to pokes holes in my muscles if I don't have to.

...
Would doing TRT and shutting down my HPTA cause more issues than it resolves?

Impossible to answer in advance. There is too much variation between individuals, and we don't have good statistics to say what the odds are. In my case I did reasonably well for a few years, but then had libido fade, and problems due to rising prolactin, etc. These issues were reversible, but only with methods that would be impractical for most. There are of course plenty of counter-anecdotes, where guys are doing well indefinitely on basic TRT.