Any ideas.

[JV63]

I am a patient of Defy/Dr. Saya and they have been great to me. It is going to be a bit before my consult, so I wanted to get some feedback.
Been on same routine for approx. 2 years.
140 ml test cyp 1/wk.
500 iu HCG 2 days before weekly inject.
50 mg DHEA and 50mg Pregnenolone daily.
No AI.
Test has been 800+ and E2 in the 20's in previous labs. No changes at all to protocol, but Test fallen a bit and E2 has really dropped off.

Total Test- 693 ng/dL
Free Test- 17.0 pg/mL
Sensitive E2- 13.6 pg/mL
DHEA- 617.1 ug/dL
Progesterone- 0.4 ng/mL

Strength is still good, but anxiety is a bit higher than normal and joints are somewhat sore.
With 1x injection frequency, HCG and DHEA and no AI, I seem to be an outlier with such low E2 numbers.

 

[ERO]

My 2-cents would be to split your T and HCG doses and take half every 3.5 days on the same day. In your case you don't need to worry about E2 control as its already low, but by doing this you will have a higher average T and HCG level than you get with a single weekly injection, which may well make you feel better overall and help with the anxiety a bit.

 

[JV63]

Noted. Thanks ERO.

I don't know if there is any physiological reasons for such low E2 numbers when most battle the opposite or it is just individual variation.

 

[ERO]

My guess is that it is individual as I have always had low-ish E2 as well. At one time I was on a protocol of 200 mg of test a week and 500 IU of HCG a week (100 mg of T and 250 IU of HCG every 3.5 days) and my e2 never got above 30. DHEA raises it in some, but not all guys as you have found out. One thing that *might* help is switching to a micronized DHEA as that form is often better absorbed by the body and, and if you absorbed more, it might raise your E2 some as well. Its not expensive to get on Amazon. For example here is one: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Naturals-Micronized-DHEA-Capsules/dp/B00ICN8XFQ

 

[JV63]

Thanks ERO, I am using Douglas micronized. I assume from my level that it is working. Have you used the Best Naturals? It is quite a bit less expensive than the Douglas Labs.

 

[johndoesmith]

I am a patient of Defy/Dr. Saya and they have been great to me. It is going to be a bit before my consult, so I wanted to get some feedback.
Been on same routine for approx. 2 years.
140 ml test cyp 1/wk.
500 iu HCG 2 days before weekly inject.
50 mg DHEA and 50mg Pregnenolone daily.
No AI.
Test has been 800+ and E2 in the 20's in previous labs. No changes at all to protocol, but Test fallen a bit and E2 has really dropped off.

Total Test- 693 ng/dL
Free Test- 17.0 pg/mL
Sensitive E2- 13.6 pg/mL
DHEA- 617.1 ug/dL
Progesterone- 0.4 ng/mL

Strength is still good, but anxiety is a bit higher than normal and joints are somewhat sore.
With 1x injection frequency, HCG and DHEA and no AI, I seem to be an outlier with such low E2 numbers.

Not nearly enough information to answer this.

First, it helps to post all the labs you have, not just a few, best thing to do is to post pictures or screenshots of the full results.

Second, post the previous labs where things were better.

Third, when were these results taken relative to injection? Same for the previous ones where E2 was good.

Fourth, has anything changed in your life? Smoking cigarettes, new supplements, new medication, or stopping any of these?

Also why only once a week injections? I know Dr saya usually recommends 2x a week, but each person is different though.

 

[JV63]

Thanks,
There are no notable changes from other labs to these outside of Test and E2.
As noted in first post nothing has been changed in relation to protocol or timing of testing in relation to trough.

You would have to ask Dr. Saya why the 1x/wk injection. That is where we started and has worked fine for 2 years.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks,
There are no notable changes from other labs to these outside of Test and E2.
As noted in first post nothing has been changed in relation to protocol or timing of testing in relation to trough.

You would have to ask Dr. Saya why the 1x/wk injection. That is where we started and has worked fine for 2 years.

There may not be changes per se, but you have no ranges, no other supporting results, there may be things you simply don't notice. It's not enough information to possibly answer this.

And no, you didn't say nothing changed regarding testing timing, or even that it was trough.

No need to be rude, I said Dr saya USUALLY goes with 2x a week, not always, and even said "each person is different".

You're giving extremely vague information and expecting real feedback from it. It simply isn't enough.

Mentioning a "change" from "20s" and "800+" literally could be anything from 900 test to 1400 test.

 

[Vince Carter]

I am a patient of Defy/Dr. Saya and they have been great to me. It is going to be a bit before my consult, so I wanted to get some feedback.
Been on same routine for approx. 2 years.
140 ml test cyp 1/wk.
500 iu HCG 2 days before weekly inject.
50 mg DHEA and 50mg Pregnenolone daily.
No AI.
Test has been 800+ and E2 in the 20's in previous labs. No changes at all to protocol, but Test fallen a bit and E2 has really dropped off.

Total Test- 693 ng/dL
Free Test- 17.0 pg/mL
Sensitive E2- 13.6 pg/mL
DHEA- 617.1 ug/dL
Progesterone- 0.4 ng/mL

Strength is still good, but anxiety is a bit higher than normal and joints are somewhat sore.
With 1x injection frequency, HCG and DHEA and no AI, I seem to be an outlier with such low E2 numbers.

I concur with JDS this is just way to vague for anymore than shots in the dark. PLease post labs, attachments, pictures, what you're giving just isn't worth much. You're E is too low but the info your giving that's a very bland statement not knowing what test you had.

 

[JV63]

Thanks Guys.

I'm not here for a consult, I have a very good Dr. that I am confident in. I was mainly interested in any feedback from people that tend to run low E2 and what could be done to possibly raise it a bit. I'll just wait until I speak with Dr. Saya and see where we go.

 

[Vettester Chris]

JV, thanks for posting. Yeah, the E2 result is kind of puzzling considering no AI's in your routine. Just curious if Dr. Saya has checked your DHT? Don't know if some 5-AR imbalance of sorts could be in play, just speculating?? In the two (2) years of HRT, has the E2 sensitive assay trended low like this?

From what you noted, "anxiety has increased a bit and some joint soreness". The anxiety could be something simple from just not getting enough sleep, lifestyle changes, diet, simple stuff ... OR, it could be obviously a lot more complex, from adrenal issues, thyroid, and/or metabolic. This is where it gets a bit difficult for other members to comment, as there's a multitude of other variables that are involved. The other labs (CMP, CBC's, thyroid (Full), D3, PSA, B12 , & Adrenals, etc.) + any background on your lifestyle/routines will provide some talking points from folks with insight and similar situations.

Just a quick comment on DHEA ... My .02 is that it can do wonders when dialed in. 50mg (for me) was too much, and taken in the morning wasn't doing me good with my adrenals and cortisol balance. Keep in mind that cortisol serum levels on a circadian profile can be 10x higher in the AM opposed to PM. Long & short, ended up at 25mg with micronized at night, and it was a GAME CHANGER with how my body responded!! Sleep, mood, and better calmness in the early hours.