Anavar or Proviron to lower SHBG

[rharvey]

Hi there, since my SHBG is sitting at 58 nmol/L I am interested in lowering it and keeping my levels in check. I'm on Zinc, Vit D3, Boron and Magnesium and don't drink alcohol and it still keeps creeping upward. I'm considering a low dose (5mg ED) of Anavar which Dr Rand Mclain has used with good success on his patients, thus boosting Free Test. The other option is Proviron which I've read on the forums has mixed results. I would cycle Anavar perhaps 2/3 weeks on, 1 week off at low does to keep lipids in check. Thoughts please.

 

[Vince Carter]

On this forum you probably won't get a resounding yes to use of those compounds, Rand McClain, or not. We tend to diverge away from the boundaries of AAS use. Having said that though we tend to recommend one larg(er) TRT level dose of Cypionate which can in some guys push down SHBG to some extent. In the end we also tend to see guys that need to run Total Test in the 1200+ range in order to give enough Test to get the Free T to come up. Which your objective, Free T increase.

 

[rharvey]

On this forum you probably won't get a resounding yes to use of those compounds, Rand McClain, or not. We tend to diverge away from the boundaries of AAS use. Having said that though we tend to recommend one larg(er) TRT level dose of Cypionate which can in some guys push down SHBG to some extent. In the end we also tend to see guys that need to run Total Test in the 1200+ range in order to give enough Test to get the Free T to come up. Which your objective, Free T increase.

Thanks Vince. Yesterday and today I dosed 35mg of test (double my normal) and I can feel a big rush (I'm also red faced and feel hot) the idea was to dose 220mg a week. How much test is considered safe to increase to, in order to raise Total Test? To recap was on 16.2 mg ED, for 113mg a week, then doubled to 33mg ED for 226 mg a week. Will see if this drives my SHBG down.

 

[Vince Carter]

100 twice per week is typical topend TRT dose; 200mg. Red faced and hot is all you did was convert it to Estrogen...not a good thing. Doubling a dose is just not the smart move. I'd use 150 split to 75mg E3.5D and then test after 6 weeks and adjust up/down based on Free T value in trough at the lab range or just over.

 

[rharvey]

100 twice per week is typical topend TRT dose; 200mg. Red faced and hot is all you did was convert it to Estrogen...not a good thing. Doubling a dose is just not the smart move. I'd use 150 split to 75mg E3.5D and then test after 6 weeks and adjust up/down based on Free T value in trough at the lab range or just over.

Ok thanks, I'm taking 0.5mg Arimidex 3 x per week to prevent aromatisation and my E2 levels aren't too bad (57 pmo/L) so perhaps the red face or flushing is something else? Blood pressure?

 

[Vince Carter]

BP, too, but most people are going to call 57 too high just on the face of it though we're all different...all of those things are elevated estrogen symptoms.

 

[Sean Mosher]

Your'e taking a total of 1.5mg per week?
Even on 100mg twice per week that it quite excessive.
You sure your e2 (sensitive) is 57?

 

[rharvey]

Your'e taking a total of 1.5mg per week?
Even on 100mg twice per week that it quite excessive.
You sure your e2 (sensitive) is 57?

Yes and Yes

 

[Vince Carter]

Your'e taking a total of 1.5mg per week?
Even on 100mg twice per week that it quite excessive.
You sure your e2 (sensitive) is 57?

I can run 57 on 1.5mg total per week.

 

[Vince Carter]

Yes and Yes

What is the lab range of that sensitive test.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, oxandrolone (legal in the US) can decrease SHBG and increase free T. Just be aware that it is a DHT analog and it can crash your estradiol, which lowers libido eventually. Proviron is not approved in the US. It is also a DHT analog but it has no anabolic properties.
oxandrolone excelmale.com site:www.excelmale.com - Google Search

 

[madman]

Hi there, since my SHBG is sitting at 58 nmol/L I am interested in lowering it and keeping my levels in check. I'm on Zinc, Vit D3, Boron and Magnesium and don't drink alcohol and it still keeps creeping upward. I'm considering a low dose (5mg ED) of Anavar which Dr Rand Mclain has used with good success on his patients, thus boosting Free Test. The other option is Proviron which I've read on the forums has mixed results. I would cycle Anavar perhaps 2/3 weeks on, 1 week off at low does to keep lipids in check. Thoughts please.

Sure 58 nmol/L is on the higher end but by no means extremely high!

People make to big a deal over high SHBG and it's effects on FT levels which is understandable if one has a lower/average TT level as it would result in sub-par FT levels but everyone needs to understand that due to the newer research/understanding of SHBG:T binding.....one does not need to run extremely high TT levels (as in well over 1200 ng/dL) in order to achieve a healthy FT.

If you truly want to know where your FT levels sit than you would need to use the most accurate testing methods such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or simply use the newer calculated TruT method (which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis).

It is available online to the general public for free.....TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT

As an example if one has an SHBG level of 58 nmol/L (high) than using the newer calculated TruT method one would only need to hit a TT level of 1000 ng/dL to achieve a FT level just slightly over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL.

TT 1000 ng/dL, SHBG 58 nmol/L, Albumin 4.3 g/dL (mean) than FT is 32.70 ng/dL (just slightly over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL)

* highlighted in green- refer to the linear law-of-mass-action model/equation Vermueulen (cFTV)

*highlighted in blue- refer to the new Multi-step Dynamic Binding Model with Complex Allostery (TruT calculated)




Read this and take it in!

[0387] Relation between Percent FT with Total Testosterone and SHBG. Intra-dimer complex allostery suggests that SHBG can regulate FT fraction over a wide range of total testosterone concentrations without getting saturated. Indeed, it was found that percent FT calculated using the new model changed very modestly over a wide range of total testosterone concentrations. In contrast, the Vermeulen's equation suggests a negative relation between percent FT and total testosterone. Furthermore, as SHBG concentrations increase, percent FT calculated using our new model shows only a modest decline in contrast to the marked decline in percent FT calculated using Vermeulen's equation.





Regarding higher/high SHBG.....everyone needs to understand this point clearly:

*Furthermore, as SHBG concentrations increase, percent FT calculated using our new model shows only a modest decline


Most men do well having FT levels in the 30-30+ ng/dL range.

So much for a man with highish/high SHBG needing to run a TT level 1200-1500 ng/dl to achieve a healthy FT level.

 

[rharvey]

Sure 58 nmol/L is on the higher end but by no means extremely high!

People make to big a deal over high SHBG and it's effects on FT levels which is understandable if one has a lower/average TT level as it would result in sub-par FT levels but everyone needs to understand that due to the newer research/understanding of SHBG:T binding.....one does not need to run extremely high TT levels (as in well over 1200 ng/dL) in order to achieve a healthy FT.

If you truly want to know where your FT levels sit than you would need to use the most accurate testing methods such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or simply use the newer calculated TruT method (which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis).

It is available online to the general public for free.....TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT

As an example if one has an SHBG level of 58 nmol/L (high) than using the newer calculated TruT method one would only need to hit a TT level of 1000 ng/dL to achieve a FT level just slightly over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL.

TT 1000 ng/dL, SHBG 58 nmol/L, Albumin 4.3 g/dL (mean) than FT is 32.70 ng/dL (just slightly over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL)
View attachment 8299




* highlighted in green- refer to the linear law-of-mass-action model/equation Vermueulen (cFTV)

*highlighted in blue- refer to the new Multi-step Dynamic Binding Model with Complex Allostery (TruT calculated)




Read this and take it in!

[0387] Relation between Percent FT with Total Testosterone and SHBG. Intra-dimer complex allostery suggests that SHBG can regulate FT fraction over a wide range of total testosterone concentrations without getting saturated. Indeed, it was found that percent FT calculated using the new model changed very modestly over a wide range of total testosterone concentrations. In contrast, the Vermeulen's equation suggests a negative relation between percent FT and total testosterone. Furthermore, as SHBG concentrations increase, percent FT calculated using our new model shows only a modest decline in contrast to the marked decline in percent FT calculated using Vermeulen's equation.





Regarding higher/high SHBG.....everyone needs to understand this point clearly:

*Furthermore, as SHBG concentrations increase, percent FT calculated using our new model shows only a modest decline


Most men do well having FT levels in the 30-30+ ng/dL range.

So much for a man with highish/high SHBG needing to run a TT level 1200-1500 ng/dl to achieve a healthy FT level.

Hi, very helpful post thank you

So my last bloods were as follows:
E2 - 57 pmol/L
TT 20.1 nmol/L (range 8-30)
FT 296 pmol/L (range 180-739)
SHBG 57.7 nmol/L (range 18.3-54.1)
This was on 113 mg test per week via compounded gel available in my country (ethanol based applied on shoulders)

Starting subq injections tomorrow (T enanthate) - what do you suggest I raise my weekly dosage to, in order to improve free t levels to upper end of range? Want to inject EOD.