AI and brain fog, morning wood

[trtthings]

I'm wondering if any of you have found the same.
When I go without AI, libido is dead, there is no morning wood, and erections need to be forced.
Brain fog also increases.

Taking .75mg - 1mg anastrozole remedies that by next morning (dramatically). Easily measurable.

Brain fog also objectively seems like it's much better.

 

[DS3]

I'm wondering if any of you have found the same.
When I go without AI, libido is dead, there is no morning wood, and erections need to be forced.
Brain fog also increases.

Taking .75mg - 1mg anastrozole remedies that by next morning (dramatically). Easily measurable.

Brain fog also objectively seems like it's much better.

From research that has been conducted thus far, taking any dosage of an AI has shown to produce neurotoxic effects.

Low concentrations of testosterone became neurotoxic in the presence of the aromatase inhibitors, i.e. anastrozole and aminoglutethimide, suggesting that the intrinsic toxicity of testosterone was counterbalanced by its aromatization into 17beta-estradiol.

So, even if your brain fog feels alleviated, the AI is still producing neurotoxic effects. I would seek to find what the true cause of your symptoms are. Estrogen is neuroprotective and beneficial for libido, mood, energy, etc. Perhaps your progesterone levels are too low, and thus can’t balance out your estrogen.

 

[bochinit]

Drop your test dose and your AI.

 

[Gman86]

Oxandrolone and stanazolol can be another option to lower E2. Another member tested E2 before and after using Oxandrolone, and 5mg of Oxandrolone lowered his E2 by around 9 points.

Another option to lower E2 is to lower test dose and replace those lost androgens with nandrolone. Nandrolone will make up for the lost androgens, with extremely minimal E2 conversion. For every 300mg of nandrolone it will raise E2 by roughly 5-6 points, on average

 

[trtthings]

Oxandrolone

That's highly interesting. The clinic I'm at in Europe doesn't prescribe Oxandrolone to my knowledge but Proviron might be an option.

 

[DS3]

That's highly interesting. The clinic I'm at in Europe doesn't prescribe Oxandrolone to my knowledge but Proviron might be an option.

Proviron has much stronger anti-estrogenic effects than either oxandrolone or stanozolol.

 

[DS3]

Oxandrolone and stanazolol can be another option to lower E2. Another member tested E2 before and after using Oxandrolone, and 5mg of Oxandrolone lowered his E2 by around 9 points.

Another option to lower E2 is to lower test dose and replace those lost androgens with nandrolone. Nandrolone will make up for the lost androgens, with extremely minimal E2 conversion. For every 300mg of nandrolone it will raise E2 by roughly 5-6 points, on average

These are not long-term solutions.

 

[trtthings]

Proviron has much stronger anti-estrogenic effects than either oxandrolone or stanozolol.

Excellent, sounds like we have a winner.

 

[trtthings]

Proviron has much stronger anti-estrogenic effects than either oxandrolone or stanozolol.

I noticed elsewhere on the forum that you have actually taken Proviron yourself - what was the dosage, and do you still take it? I think I want to push for it in order to reduce the need for AI (and to increase free T, my SHBG is very high in general).

From the papers I found it seemed that they suggested that because Proviron couldn't be aromatized and because it caused suppression of LH, that that was the reason for why it reduced estradiol. This would be nullified with TRT I would have thought because LH suppression doesn't matter as much. I didn't dig very deep though.

 

[Gman86]

These are not long-term solutions.

Good point. Not sure about stanazolol, but I would personally be comfortable using low dose Oxandrolone long term, say 5-15mg. As long as blood markers didn’t suffer too much. My diet and exercise is always on point, so I think I could personally use low dose Oxandrolone long term, but it would probably be very individual, in regards to whether they could use very low dose Oxandrolone or stanazolol long term. Dr. Lichten apparently has been using low dose stanazolol in his practice for years. I assume without too many negative consequences

 

[trtthings]

I respect that opinion. My opinion differs a bit. But agree to disagree

Your protocol includes nandrolone if I recall correctly? How is it for your mood and libido? I feel like I read somewhere that it was worse there than testosterone, with it being much more anabolic and much less androgenic.

 

[Gman86]

Your protocol includes nandrolone if I recall correctly? How is it for your mood and libido? I feel like I read somewhere that it was worse there than testosterone, with it being much more anabolic and much less androgenic.

Ya I was using a nandrolone base with added test to boost up E2 from February to October of this year. Libido was about a 6/10 I would say. It was pretty good. Definitely there when I needed it. But I feel like libido has been higher on previous testosterone based protocols. Erections were a 10/10 tho, which was a huge relief. Heard so many stories of the dreaded “deca d*ck”. So it was such a relief for erections to be so good.

 

[trtthings]

Ya I was using a nandrolone base with added test to boost up E2 from February to October of this year. Libido was about a 6/10 I would say. It was pretty good. Definitely there when I needed it. But I feel like libido has been higher on previous testosterone based protocols. Erections were a 10/10 tho, which was a huge relief. Heard so many stories of the dreaded “deca d*ck”. So it was such a relief for erections to be so good.

10/10! Interesting. What are you on now?

 

[Gman86]

10/10! Interesting. What are you on now?

Currently using 200mg of testosterone per week. Nothing else. If I do end up needing to manage E2, my plan is to use very low dose Oxandrolone. I’ll try to use the minimum effective dose. Hopefully 5-10mg/ day. If I have to, I’m willing to go up to 15mg/ day, but that’s the highest dose of Oxandrolone I think I would feel comfortable using long term.

And ya erections were as good as they’ve ever been while on the nandrolone base. I’m assuming it had to do with me having such a high androgen to estrogen ratio while on that protocol. That and obv eating really healthy and exercising frequently. Erections are very dependent on blood flow and overall cardiac function.

 

[DS3]

Good point. Not sure about stanazolol, but I would personally be comfortable using low dose Oxandrolone long term, say 5-15mg. As long as blood markers didn’t suffer too much. My diet and exercise is always on point, so I think I could personally use low dose Oxandrolone long term, but it would probably be very individual, in regards to whether they could use very low dose Oxandrolone or stanazolol long term. Dr. Lichten apparently has been using low dose stanazolol in his practice for years. I assume without too many negative consequences

A mere 7 mg of oxandrolone will reduce HDL by 40%. Nothing that has that dramatic of effect on lipid panels is a long-term solution.

 

[DS3]

I noticed elsewhere on the forum that you have actually taken Proviron yourself - what was the dosage, and do you still take it? I think I want to push for it in order to reduce the need for AI (and to increase free T, my SHBG is very high in general).

From the papers I found it seemed that they suggested that because Proviron couldn't be aromatized and because it caused suppression of LH, that that was the reason for why it reduced estradiol. This would be nullified with TRT I would have thought because LH suppression doesn't matter as much. I didn't dig very deep though.

Proviron has antagonist effects at the estrogen receptor itself, similar to Masteron. I don’t take it anymore because my DHT levels are high from test alone. An effective dosage is 25 mg daily. It’s definitely worth trying it out. It does work very well at blocking many of the effects of estrogen. When I’ve taken too much Proviron, ~50 mg per day, it felt like I crashed my estrogen with too much Anastrozole.

 

[Gman86]

A mere 7 mg of oxandrolone will reduce HDL by 40%. Nothing that has that dramatic of effect on lipid panels is a long-term solution.

I’ll make sure to get my lipid panel done before and after using Oxandrolone, if I do end up using it, and will report my results. Looks like Oxandrolone can definitely drop HDL significantly with just a small dose though. 15mg/ day dropped this guy’s HDL by about 50%

 

[Gman86]

Proviron has antagonist effects at the estrogen receptor itself, similar to Masteron. I don’t take it anymore because my DHT levels are high from test alone. An effective dosage is 25 mg daily. It’s definitely worth trying it out. It does work very well at blocking many of the effects of estrogen. When I’ve taken too much Proviron, ~50 mg per day, it felt like I crashed my estrogen with too much Anastrozole.

Do you know if masteron has similar effects on HDL as Oxandrolone?

 

[bochinit]

Do you know if masteron has similar effects on HDL as Oxandrolone?

No, it does not. It's more easy on lipids.

 

[DS3]

Do you know if masteron has similar effects on HDL as Oxandrolone?

I can’t find any real clinical research since it hasn’t been used to treat breast cancer in nearly 5 decades. However, I’ve heard Dr. Thomas O’Connell discuss Masteron’s negative effects on lipids in one of his harm reduction videos. I know that Masteron will have a greater effect on lipids than testosterone given its strong anti-estrogenic properties. But I really have no clue if it’s as drastic of a reduction as is seen with Oxandrolone. I would take an educated guess and say that it probably wouldn’t reduce HDL by 40% (in low doses) like Oxandrolone would given that Oxandrolone’s effects on lipids are mediated through its direct effect on the liver.