30 mg per day of testosterone shots

[themud]

Great article.

I have a couple of questions. This March I will have been on strictly T cyp.

15mg/day.

My BW always shows up great and have it done before inject. Usually 400-600. E2 can be all over and I think it goes along with my diet. If I am drinking a lot it is usually high normal. When I don't drink or eat sugary foods it drops low normal. My exercise is consistent regardless with heavy lifts and HIIT. I swear it keeps E2 low. Maybe body fat? Usually 11-14%ish.

I have always been an endurance junky and skinny fat. I am 47 now and am trying desperately to make up for time to gain muscle.

I have embarked on upping my dose to 30mg/day and have been since Halloween. I have never felt so great. In fact erections wake me up during the night and my libido is crazy. No itchy nipples, no emotions, and seeing my obliques for the first time since being skinny doing triathlons in my teens.

Of course I am only going to do this for 12 weeks. I keep hearing stories of gyno or feeling crappy, but again I know I am on T for life and know where I need to be for normal levels.

I am very disciplined as far as getting advice and following through. I have patients who are BBs and say it's called a blast and cruise.

What are your thoughts? Feel free to PM me.

Thank you,
Themud

 

[Nelson Vergel]

30 x 7= 210 mg per week.

A tiny supraphysiologic. Watch for these parameters at week 8.

Testosterone Replacement Blood Test Targets and Their Management | Discounted Labs

 

[Gman86]

Honestly, all that matters is that you feel great. According to the top doctors in this field, keeping sex hormones at supraphysiologic levels, not only isn’t bad for your health, but in fact can be extremely beneficial. They are now saying that having E2 WAY above the top of the range is extremely healthy, having DHT WAY above the top of the range is beneficial, and I don’t see why testosterone would be any different. Dr. Rouzier also preluded to the fact that we also don’t need to worry about high HCT as much as we previously thought. From the sounds of it, he thinks we can have HCT levels much higher than we previously have thought to be safe, without any cardiovascular risks.

So if you continue to feel great, I would continue your current protocol indefinitely. I think they would all agree.

Are you going to get labs done anytime soon on this new protocol? I’d love to see where your numbers currently are, and how they compare to your numbers on your previous protocol.

 

[trt reznor]

Honestly, all that matters is that you feel great. According to the top doctors in this field, keeping sex hormones at supraphysiologic levels, not only isn’t bad for your health, but in fact can be extremely beneficial. They are now saying that having E2 WAY above the top of the range is extremely healthy, having DHT WAY above the top of the range is beneficial, and I don’t see why testosterone would be any different. Dr. Rouzier also preluded to the fact that we also don’t need to worry about high HCT as much as we previously thought. From the sounds of it, he thinks we can have HCT levels much higher than we previously have thought to be safe, without any cardiovascular risks.

So if you continue to feel great, I would continue your current protocol indefinitely. I think they would all agree.

Are you going to get labs done anytime soon on this new protocol? I’d love to see where your numbers currently are, and how they compare to your numbers on your previous protocol.

High E2 is also linked with serious health conditions such as DVT (deep vein thrombosis, blood clotting in the larger veins of the body that can cause stroke, heart attack, and death). If I were at supraphysiological levels I would have some extra tests run regularly.

 

[themud]

Nelson,

Thank you. I will monitor. I am under a doctor's care, but she is clueless. I do bloods with her AND discount labs (LabCorp). I gave blood first week of December. HCT then was 49. I am in CO. One thing I have noticed is when I just eat decent and down really try to hydrate my HCT looks high. When I hydrate like crazy, eat no carbs a few days before my labs look phenomenal.

I will keep you updated as I am about 10 weeks in and have only noticed a little water retention that has now gone down. I am following Martin Berkhan's IF at 18-23 fast and can see all but bottom abs at 47 years old. My wife looks at me very strangely which is cool.

My next BW with her is April. I will do another blood draw in March. I actually feel better a few days after a draw. Clearer mind.

 

[themud]

I do not plan to run this continuely. I will drop back down below 20mg/day in a couple of weeks.

 

[Vince Carter]

Ive contemplated a short blast or cruise but I have too much E problems as it is which is getting better but still.

 

[themud]

VC,
Because of yours and Vince and CW my dialed in numbers actually keep my e down. Infact my doc on two separate BW was concerned my e was too low. She is clueless. Thinks it should be 5% of TT.

I was doing 15ish mg/day up until 8 days before draw to show lower TT. She use to like 800-1000 TT, but something must have scared her with someone because she doesn't want her patients over 800 anymore. She mostly does pellets. She said I am only one of two of her patients who injects.

Tnation has a doctor on there who is a competitive BB who hates AIs and himself never used them. Says he regularly does 600 t cyp and 400 diabol / week with no AI and has e in 30s. Obviously low body fat, but says he runs liver cleanse with his cycles like NAC, TUNCA and cumin?

I can crash my e with DIM CDG and lemon water.

I was probably 20+% body fat before TRT. I was determined to not have fat for aromatising. So for 6 months I was very strict.

Always lean until couple years ago. Got up to 34 waist. Couldn't figure out how or why with best efforts.

 

[Gman86]

High E2 is also linked with serious health conditions such as DVT (deep vein thrombosis, blood clotting in the larger veins of the body that can cause stroke, heart attack, and death). If I were at supraphysiological levels I would have some extra tests run regularly.

You must not watch any of the TOT round tables. I’m not saying I’m completely on board with their views, but it’s worth listening to, imo. According to them, the links you mentioned between high E2 and cardiovascular disease are a big topic of debate. They feel that elevated E2 not only doesn’t increase cardiovascular disease, and DVT, but it actually is highly cardiovascular protective. Again, not saying I believe everything they say, but I just don’t know if it’s wise to quote the risks you mentioned as facts. I would just be more careful about spreading information that isn’t 100% conclusive. In all due respect, obviously.

 

[Gman86]

VC,
Because of yours and Vince and CW my dialed in numbers actually keep my e down. Infact my doc on two separate BW was concerned my e was too low. She is clueless. Thinks it should be 5% of TT.

I was doing 15ish mg/day up until 8 days before draw to show lower TT. She use to like 800-1000 TT, but something must have scared her with someone because she doesn't want her patients over 800 anymore. She mostly does pellets. She said I am only one of two of her patients who injects.

Tnation has a doctor on there who is a competitive BB who hates AIs and himself never used them. Says he regularly does 600 t cyp and 400 diabol / week with no AI and has e in 30s. Obviously low body fat, but says he runs liver cleanse with his cycles like NAC, TUNCA and cumin?

I can crash my e with DIM CDG and lemon water.

I was probably 20+% body fat before TRT. I was determined to not have fat for aromatising. So for 6 months I was very strict.

Always lean until couple years ago. Got up to 34 waist. Couldn't figure out how or why with best efforts.

That BB is clearly getting extremely underdosed/ bunk steroids. There is nobody on this planet that can have an E2 of 30 while doing 600mg/ week of test, and dbol on top of it. I know he is against ai’s, but durr, that’s because he doesn’t need one. His E2 is in the 30’s! I’d be saying the same thing if my E2 was that low. Now if his E2 was 200, and he reported feeling great and not needing an ai, that would be a different story.

 

[Gman86]

I do not plan to run this continuely. I will drop back down below 20mg/day in a couple of weeks.

I think that’s a good move as well. Err on the side of caution. Hopefully you continue to experience most of, if not all, the subjective benefits at 140/week as you are feeling at 210/week.

 

[Systemlord]

She use to like 800-1000 TT, but something must have scared her with someone because she doesn't want her patients over 800 anymore.

The insurance companies don't want men above 800 ng/dL, she could get in trouble and that's why she's scared. If she knew what she was doing, there would be no need to be scared.

She is a puppet and the insurance companies are pulling the strings, private doctors have more medical freedom and can go by the older ranges 348-1198 ng/dL if they choose.

Normal ranges have nothing to do with healthy ranges, normal is a populations of adults who are exposed to toxic chemicals on a daily basis, some interfere with our endocrine systems. This is the new normal.

 

[trt reznor]

You must not watch any of the TOT round tables. I’m not saying I’m completely on board with their views, but it’s worth listening to, imo. According to them, the links you mentioned between high E2 and cardiovascular disease are a big topic of debate. They feel that elevated E2 not only doesn’t increase cardiovascular disease, and DVT, but it actually is highly cardiovascular protective. Again, not saying I believe everything they say, but I just don’t know if it’s wise to quote the risks you mentioned as facts. I would just be more careful about spreading information that isn’t 100% conclusive. In all due respect, obviously.

No I haven’t watched the TOT round tables. I will look into that.

What I’m referring to in my post is Dr Charles Glueck’s work in researching correlation between TRT and DVT, where he also mentions correlations with high E2 and arimidex with clotting.

I would say the last thing I feel is healthy when my E2 is high, and with that in addition to some associated findings with regards to DVT and clotting in general, would make the same warning against advocating the benefits of high E2 without at least making a disclaimer. Respectfully, as well.

 

[Vince Carter]

No I haven’t watched the TOT round tables. I will look into that.

What I’m referring to in my post is Dr Charles Glueck’s work in researching correlation between TRT and DVT, where he also mentions correlations with high E2 and arimidex with clotting.

I would say the last thing I feel is healthy when my E2 is high, and with that in addition to some associated findings with regards to DVT and clotting in general, would make the same warning against advocating the benefits of high E2 without at least making a disclaimer. Respectfully, as well.

You in the right thread?

 

[stevep]

The insurance companies don't want men above 800 ng/dL, she could get in trouble and that's why she's scared. If she knew what she was doing, there would be no need to be scared.

She is a puppet and the insurance companies are pulling the strings, private doctors have more medical freedom and can go by the older ranges 348-1198 ng/dL if they choose.

My PCP is the same way. I wonder if this is the reason?

 

[trt reznor]

You in the right thread?

Not sure why you would say that if you read through mine and Gman86’s exchange.

 

[trt reznor]

Great article.

I have a couple of questions. This March I will have been on strictly T cyp.

15mg/day.

My BW always shows up great and have it done before inject. Usually 400-600. E2 can be all over and I think it goes along with my diet. If I am drinking a lot it is usually high normal. When I don't drink or eat sugary foods it drops low normal. My exercise is consistent regardless with heavy lifts and HIIT. I swear it keeps E2 low. Maybe body fat? Usually 11-14%ish.

I have always been an endurance junky and skinny fat. I am 47 now and am trying desperately to make up for time to gain muscle.

I have embarked on upping my dose to 30mg/day and have been since Halloween. I have never felt so great. In fact erections wake me up during the night and my libido is crazy. No itchy nipples, no emotions, and seeing my obliques for the first time since being skinny doing triathlons in my teens.

Of course I am only going to do this for 12 weeks. I keep hearing stories of gyno or feeling crappy, but again I know I am on T for life and know where I need to be for normal levels.

I am very disciplined as far as getting advice and following through. I have patients who are BBs and say it's called a blast and cruise.

What are your thoughts? Feel free to PM me.

Thank you,
Themud

Have you gotten some labs while you’re feeling great like this, just for reference?

Im curious to see how you’re going to react to dropping your T down by 70mg a week. I would think if your labs look great, and you feel great, why not keep going?

 

[themud]

I am sorry my mind gets ahead of my fingers.

Been on tcyp only for two years this March.

No bloods on this protocol.

One of the problems with medical research is that they do these studies on older men who are not optimizing themselves for wellness. Maybe for health, but not wellness. They're probably overweight, eat crap, sit around and think passively.

The other side of the coin is younger men doin thousands of mgs of different chemicals peer week on and off for years. Those guys usually end up like the rest of the population and stop being into wellness and down they go. "Well it must have been the roads".

Not to mention the older men are probably on 1-4 other meds.

Before TRT I was popping 800-1600 mgs of ibuprofen per day to deal with my headaches daily for 18 months. I can't remember the last time I took vitamin I.

Headache is the only thing I take something for.

 

[Gman86]

No I haven’t watched the TOT round tables. I will look into that.

What I’m referring to in my post is Dr Charles Glueck’s work in researching correlation between TRT and DVT, where he also mentions correlations with high E2 and arimidex with clotting.

I would say the last thing I feel is healthy when my E2 is high, and with that in addition to some associated findings with regards to DVT and clotting in general, would make the same warning against advocating the benefits of high E2 without at least making a disclaimer. Respectfully, as well.

I’m with you on this one. I agree completely. Without conclusive evidence, I absolutely think they should not be telling men that E2 levels of 100, 200, and even 300, are not only completely safe, but potentially beneficial. I’m still very weary about letting my E2 get too high. I’m playing it safe and just trying to get my levels to around what I think most young healthy males in their prime are walking around with. If they conclusively end up proving that higher levels in fact do improve overall health, I’ll defintely change my views. But until then, I think playing it safe is the best thing to do.