Kyzatrex -Oral TRT - (or similar) experiences

[JorgeF]

Thanks for the feedback on the dhea/preg. I think it's improving a bit, but it's only been a week on the lower dose, so we'll see.


Yeah, the hematocrit is something I'm keeping my eye on. It seems on the edge of concern, but not there yet. Interestingly, it seems to vary a bit depending on the lab performing the test. On 12/9, with DiscountedLabs, it was 50.8, on 12/30, with a local lab, it was 47.7, and on 2/3, with LabCorp, it was 52.1. I'll just keep eyeing that.


That's a good question about the most recent 16.5 e2/52.1 hct numbers. That was done in the morning, fasted, before the first dose (total T, as expected, was 298 ng/dL), probably decent hydration, but it was morning. From that test, the hemoglobin was 16.8 g/dL, RBC was 5.23 (x10E6/uL), and ferritin was low at 26 ng/mL.

I was curious whether I needed to address the ferritin, but I was reading that it may be somewhat expected in this situation: I'm not deficient in the class sense, but low because I'm making blood aggressively, and should not supplement yet, but monitor the situation.

yeah your read on ferritin is pretty reasonable, and it’s one of those spots where people get tripped up because “low ferritin” doesn’t always mean “go slam iron”

with trt (and especially if your hematocrit runs high-ish), your body can chew through iron stores faster because it’s basically being nudged to make more red cells. plus if you’ve ever donated blood or done a therapeutic phlebotomy, ferritin can get dragged down while hemoglobin still looks totally fine. so you can end up in this annoying spot where hct is up, but ferritin is low-ish, and you’re like… ok so which way am i supposed to go here

ferritin at 26 is not “panic low”, but it’s low enough that i’d keep an eye on symptoms. some people feel totally fine there, others start noticing weird stuff like restless legs, crappy sleep, lower endurance, or just feeling more drained. what i usually like to see (before supplementing) is the rest of the iron picture, because ferritin alone can be misleading: iron, tibc, transferrin saturation, maybe crp if you want context. if transferrin sat is low and you’ve got symptoms, that’s when a doc might actually consider iron, but doing it blindly can be a bad time, especially if you’re already riding the edge on hematocrit

also worth noting: your labs were a true trough (fasted, before first dose), so total t being low there isn’t shocking at all with oral tu. if you ever want a “how high am i actually getting” snapshot, a lot of people pull labs a few hours after a dose, but obviously do it consistently so you can compare trends

are you having any low ferritin type symptoms (restless legs at night, fatigue that feels different, breathlessness on stairs, cold hands/feet)? have you donated blood at all since starting? and do you have your transferrin saturation from that same draw, or was it just ferritin?

 

[thegdgteer]

ferritin at 26 is not “panic low”, but it’s low enough that i’d keep an eye on symptoms. some people feel totally fine there, others start noticing weird stuff like restless legs, crappy sleep, lower endurance, or just feeling more drained.

I have not noticed any of these symptoms.

what i usually like to see (before supplementing) is the rest of the iron picture, because ferritin alone can be misleading: iron, tibc, transferrin saturation, maybe crp if you want context. if transferrin sat is low and you’ve got symptoms, that’s when a doc might actually consider iron, but doing it blindly can be a bad time, especially if you’re already riding the edge on hematocrit

It's interesting you should ask about CRP (I don't think I have those other biomarkers in the latest labs) because that came in alarmingly high at 4.54 mg/L. However, I deduced that this was likely because I had mistakenly taken these tests just 4 days after an RSV vaccination. Another CRP test came back at 0.5 just a couple of weeks before that.

also worth noting: your labs were a true trough (fasted, before first dose), so total t being low there isn’t shocking at all with oral tu. if you ever want a “how high am i actually getting” snapshot, a lot of people pull labs a few hours after a dose, but obviously do it consistently so you can compare trends

Yeah, I usually like to test testosterone at about 4 hours after morning dose, but this set of labs was for another provider that wanted morning, fasted tests.

are you having any low ferritin type symptoms (restless legs at night, fatigue that feels different, breathlessness on stairs, cold hands/feet)? have you donated blood at all since starting? and do you have your transferrin saturation from that same draw, or was it just ferritin?

No symptoms I've noticed yet. I have not donated since starting. I don't see (not familiar with this biomarker either) TSAT in this round of tests.

 

[Systemlord]

yeah i’ve heard this a bunch. some people just do way better on oral tu and injections end up being peak/crash city, especially if the dose was on the higher side or not split in a way your body likes. but if shots were sending you to the er that’s no joke, i’m glad you found something you can actually tolerate

when you say er visits, what was it that was happening for you… bp spikes, panic/heart rate, chest stuff, crazy water retention, or something like an injection reaction? and what injection protocol were you on back then (once a week big shot vs split)?

also with jatenzo/kyzatrex, are you taking it with a real meal consistently or just whenever, and have you checked your bp since restarting? any labs planned soon like cbc/hematocrit and lipids, or are you just going by feel right now?

I take my Jatenzo consistently. I can take it with or without meals and I don’t notice much of a difference. Sometimes when I’m not hungry, I’ll just drink a bit of avocado oil because it has fats in it. I actually had to stop Jatenzo last night because I have to wait for my ferritin levels to decline further. The side effects are just too much. Three months ago, my ferritin was 57 which is too high. I’ve gone two months and donated blood once and it’s still too high. I tried starting TRT three separate times. This last time was more tolerable than the last two times. I need my ferritin in the 20 range. Six months ago I was on Jatenzo for two months and that was my best response with ferritin at 26. I’ve always felt my best on TRT with low ferritin <30.

Yes, injections daily, and every other day caused insane blood pressure and racing heart rate. I never responded fully to twice weekly and weekly injections. I need to have my testosterone spiking and declining rapidly to respond well.

 

[JorgeF]

I take my Jatenzo consistently. I can take it with or without meals and I don’t notice much of a difference. Sometimes when I’m not hungry, I’ll just drink a bit of avocado oil because it has fats in it. I actually had to stop Jatenzo last night because I have to wait for my ferritin levels to decline further. The side effects are just too much. Three months ago, my ferritin was 57 which is too high. I’ve gone two months and donated blood once and it’s still too high. I tried starting TRT three separate times. This last time was more tolerable than the last two times. I need my ferritin in the 20 range. Six months ago I was on Jatenzo for two months and that was my best response with ferritin at 26. I’ve always felt my best on TRT with low ferritin <30.

Yes, injections daily, and every other day caused insane blood pressure and racing heart rate. I never responded fully to twice weekly and weekly injections. I need to have my testosterone spiking and declining rapidly to respond well.

gotcha. one thing though, ferritin “high” isn’t really the usual trt red flag people think it is. the thing trt tends to push up is hematocrit/hemoglobin (thicker blood), not ferritin. ferritin is more like iron storage + it can move with inflammation too. and a ferritin of 57 is actually totally normal on a lot of lab ranges, unless your doc is chasing something specific like iron overload or there’s a context i’m missing.

also, trying to force ferritin down into the low 20s on purpose can backfire. lots of people feel like garbage when iron stores get too low (fatigue, restless legs, weak training, cold hands, hair shedding, etc). so if you’re donating just to “feel better”, i’d want to make sure you’re not mixing up ferritin with hematocrit, or chasing a number that isn’t actually the problem.

on the bp/racing heart thing… i’m not shocked you got that with daily/eod injections if your peaks were high, but it’s kinda the opposite of the “i need spikes” idea from a safety standpoint. plus oral tu (jatenzo/kyzatrex) can also push bp for some guys, so if you’re already sensitive to it, i’d be really careful and track it at home instead of guessing by feel.

what were your hematocrit and hemoglobin during the times you felt worst? and what’s the reference range on your ferritin lab (some labs call different things “high”)? did you ever check full iron studies like transferrin saturation/tibc, or crp to see if ferritin is just acting like an inflammation marker? and when you say “insane bp”, what numbers were you actually seeing at home?

 

[Systemlord]

gotcha. one thing though, ferritin “high” isn’t really the usual trt red flag people think it is. the thing trt tends to push up is hematocrit/hemoglobin (thicker blood), not ferritin. ferritin is more like iron storage + it can move with inflammation too. and a ferritin of 57 is actually totally normal on a lot of lab ranges, unless your doc is chasing something specific like iron overload or there’s a context i’m missing.

also, trying to force ferritin down into the low 20s on purpose can backfire. lots of people feel like garbage when iron stores get too low (fatigue, restless legs, weak training, cold hands, hair shedding, etc). so if you’re donating just to “feel better”, i’d want to make sure you’re not mixing up ferritin with hematocrit, or chasing a number that isn’t actually the problem.

on the bp/racing heart thing… i’m not shocked you got that with daily/eod injections if your peaks were high, but it’s kinda the opposite of the “i need spikes” idea from a safety standpoint. plus oral tu (jatenzo/kyzatrex) can also push bp for some guys, so if you’re already sensitive to it, i’d be really careful and track it at home instead of guessing by feel.

what were your hematocrit and hemoglobin during the times you felt worst? and what’s the reference range on your ferritin lab (some labs call different things “high”)? did you ever check full iron studies like transferrin saturation/tibc, or crp to see if ferritin is just acting like an inflammation marker? and when you say “insane bp”, what numbers were you actually seeing at home?

Before I ever started fixating on ferritin or iron on TRT, it was 24 and I felt great. So my normal range has to be somewhere in the 20 to 30 range.

 

[JorgeF]

Before I ever started fixating on ferritin or iron on TRT, it was 24 and I felt great. So my normal range has to be somewhere in the 20 to 30 range.

i get why you’re anchoring on that, like “i felt great at ferritin ~24 so that must be my sweet spot”… but ferritin is a sneaky marker to chase like that

ferritin isn’t just “iron tank level”, it also moves with inflammation, liver stuff, infections, even just how hard you trained / how stressed your body was around the draw. so it’s really easy to accidentally credit ferritin for “feeling great” when the real driver was something else that happened to be better at the same time (sleep, bp, e2 swing, dose timing, hematocrit, stress, etc)

also, ferritin in the 50s is normal for a lot of people. it’s not like “too high” unless there’s a specific context (iron overload workup, high transferrin sat, inflammation, liver disease, etc). the bigger “trt blood” number people watch is hematocrit/hemoglobin, not ferritin

and the risky part is trying to force ferritin down into the low 20s by donating. that can work for hematocrit, but it can also quietly push you into iron deficiency territory and then you feel awful in a different way (fatigue, restless legs, low stamina, cold hands, hair shedding, etc). it can be a trap because you’re trying to feel better and you end up chasing the wrong knob

if you want to figure out if ferritin is actually the thing, the clean way is to look at the full iron picture, not just ferritin: transferrin saturation, serum iron, tibc, and ideally a crp. and then compare it to your cbc trends (mcv/mch, rbc count, etc). that tells you if you’re truly running low on usable iron vs ferritin just bouncing around

also, when you were at ferritin 24 and felt great… what were your hematocrit and hemoglobin then? and what are they now? and did you ever have iron saturation/tibc checked alongside ferritin, or are you only looking at ferritin by itself?