Is this due to scrotal application?
Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer
- Thread starter bbex2014
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Is this due to scrotal application?
Yes, the scrotal application is used for two reasons. Reason number one is that it is the best site for absorption with regard to skin. It is thin skinned and highly vascular and you can get up to eight times better absorption than some other areas. You can apply the cream anywhere that you have skin. Literally anywhere from the face to the feet. The other reason that we utilize the scrotal application is because it reduces the risk of transference. Transference requires skin to skin contact for it to occur. With a scrotal application we should have completely eliminated any risk of transference two children or animals. So we're really just talking about our partners and there are at least four different ways that you can avoid transference to your sexual partner.
For anyone curious about whether or not scrotal cream is efficacious, please read below:
Context
I used cream on and off for three weeks. I varied dose, location and cream strength (15% and 20%) to find an ideal protocol. Seven days prior to labs:
Pretty terrible overall. Daily headache. Few days with tachycardia and elevated BP. Some days of feeling jittery. Some anxiety. Poor sleep.
Needless to say, scrotal cream works. I swore I would never touch it again. That said, now that I have some data, I'd consider trying it again, but either by applying only to the shoulders, or by cutting the scrotal dose in half (50mg at a time).
It's hard to say which hormone or metabolite made me feel so crappy, but probably all of them.
Context
I used cream on and off for three weeks. I varied dose, location and cream strength (15% and 20%) to find an ideal protocol. Seven days prior to labs:
- Day 1
- AM - 112.5mg shoulders
- PM - 50mg shoulders
- Day 2
- AM - 100mg shoulders
- PM - 50mg upper inner thigh
- anastrozole 0.125mg
- Day 3
- AM - 100mg shoulders
- PM - 50mg upper inner thigh
- Day 4
- AM - 100mg shoulders
- PM - 50mg scrotal (new cream - up to here, cream was a few years old)
- Day 5
- AM - 100mg scrotal
- PM - 50mg scrotal
- Day 6
- AM - 100mg scrotal
- PM - 50mg scrotal
- Day 7
- AM - 100mg scrotal
- Labs drawn 5 hours after scrotal dose
- PM - none
- Total T - 1145 (250-1100)
- Free T - 312.8 (25-155)
- SHBG - 38 (10-50)
- DHT - 321 (12-65)
- Estradiol - 49 (<29)
- Hgb - 15.4 (13.2-17.1)
Pretty terrible overall. Daily headache. Few days with tachycardia and elevated BP. Some days of feeling jittery. Some anxiety. Poor sleep.
Needless to say, scrotal cream works. I swore I would never touch it again. That said, now that I have some data, I'd consider trying it again, but either by applying only to the shoulders, or by cutting the scrotal dose in half (50mg at a time).
It's hard to say which hormone or metabolite made me feel so crappy, but probably all of them.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Also the fact that you changed the dose and application almost everyday !!! That said. It’s going to take some time for your body to acclimate To the cream. For most people 2x a day application is pretty steady state. So maybe you wont do great that high 24/7. I know I personally feel better on the cream at 150mg daily the. I do on 200. And my levels are 700tt and 23ft On 150. I’ve been feeling pretty good at this dose. But I am going to try upping again one more time to be sure. I like you screwed around too much in the beginning. This is the longest I’ve been on a set cream protocol (few months) and I finally feel decent. Way better then injections.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Also adding in the a.I scan scene how you feel. My e2 is in the 40s with lower t than you and I feel good. Ive tested so many times over the years and my e2 follows t (as it should) and never had the alleged “high e2 “ symptoms. even when I was told my ratio is off cause I have low shbg. Just take the cream find the dose that you feel good at and ride it out. You’re messing around way too much.
Yes - I was titrating my dose. I had no intention of doing it forever. But, with a short acting agent, I think it's reasonable to play with the dose a little in the beginning before you settle and stick with something.
My intention was to settle on the 100mg scrotal AM and 50mg PM. But, I felt crazy. I figured I was supraphysiologic and it turns out I was.
I personally believe that for quick acting agents with shorter half-lives, it is reasonable to get labs early on if things don't seem right. This is different from a scenario in which you start a new protocol, but don't feel benefits early on. That, I believe, requires patience. In this case, had I continued with this protocol, I may have pushed levels even higher and had more cardiovascular side effects.
In any case, I am not opposed to trying again, but now I have data that tells me I have to go much lower than what I tried.
I actually am fairly confident that I do not tolerate even moderate elevations of E2. I have lots of labs that correlate with feeling shitty and I have lots of anecdotal experience with using an AI and pulling myself out of a dump with it. I get it - there are lots of reasons why an AI is tricky and there are lots people with passionate opinions. But I am also aware of lots of guys who have a similar reaction to even mild E2 elevations.
But, I agree with your sentiment. I would personally prefer not to mess with two variables. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a reality for me. It is possible that if I can find a dose that gets me in the 700TT range that my E2 won't shoot up along with it. If so, I suspect I'd feel pretty damn good - like you.
To be honest, I picked my target dose based on your experience. I was trying to limit my absorption early on, and pushed it up to your protocol. It's so crazy that at the same dose, I absorb like crazy. I'd love to figure out a way to get your levels! I suspect that might be my goldilocks zone.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
just to check on absorption sure labs that early can be of some value. But to gauge effectiveness of protocol not a chance. Brother I’ve told you 1000 times. I went through same thing. And made so many assumptions. And after I waited it out,it’s all working out
now that you know 150mg gets you to 1100tt. Why not do 50am 50pm full scrotal all ride it out. Don’t assume full scrotal is going to jack your numbers through the roof. It doesn’t for me. I actually had similar numbers with less cream to my thighs. Then full scrotal. your Never going to dial in with all this messing Around and second guessing everything.
I am not disagreeing.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
you Sides can be that you just do not tolerate that high t levels or your body needs time to adjust. It’s not your e2. If you lower the cream dose I can assure you the e2 will also be lower. When my natural t levels were 168. My e2 was 12. When my labs came back over 1500 and I’ve 50 ft. (Not even sure how high they were ) my e2 was 85. That’s how it works. The only guys that I have seen the cream not work for are the rare ones that just do not absorb well. You obviously do. Pick a dose stick with it for a few months and you’ll be fine. I had all sorts of sides. Convinced my levels were too low. Then. Thought they were too high. Don’t forget the mind is a very powerful thing.
have you ever got your preg levels checked ? I know mine are rock bottom and 20mg of preg been working wonders.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I know. But why are you also blaming e2 ? Just lower the cream dose to where you feel comfortable!
My intention in posting my original labs was not to blame E2, but just to provide information and feedback to the community at large. I do think elevated E2 gives me problems. I’ve experienced it before. That said, I believe the substantial elevation of testosterone, and all the associated metabolites are likely what caused me to feel bad. Hard to say which one.
I’m pretty sure we are saying the same thing: I need to drop my dose.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
i understand. But try not to look too deep into the labs. Just lower the dose. And give it a good 4-6 weeks to adjust. without any changes whatsoever You now know you absorb well if You feel you need to lower it, lower it. But after that stay consistent. Even the labs you have now are hrs to gauge the best place for you to put it cause you changed it a few times in a week. So just do it in one area. imo scrotum is best just for transference and grooming. its Much easier to shave your sack then parts of you legs and stuff lol
@Cataceous, I read either in this thread or another one that you tried transdermal and had disproportionate conversion to DHT. Were are you applying to scrotum or extremities?
Also, do you have any way to make an educated guess as to how long it might take DHT to normalize if you were using a modality that minimally converted (i.e., Natesto)?
Also, do you have any way to make an educated guess as to how long it might take DHT to normalize if you were using a modality that minimally converted (i.e., Natesto)?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Sorry to butt in. But I had almost same conversion to dht (in the blood) from sack to thighs. Almost identical. I also haven’t noticed any difference (side effects wise ) with my dht being mid range vs way above the range.
Interesting. Same DHT levels? What were they?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
179 on 3 clicks (2am-1pm) scrotum
136 in 2 clicks to thighs am only.
and thigh cream was hrt base
scrotal was atrevis
Hyrulewarrior1978
Active Member
Same I always felt best on creams.
Are you currently using cream?
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