Testosterone No Ester

bbex2014

Active Member
Just out of curiosity, if compounding pharmacies started making pure testosterone in say grapeseed oil carrier (no ester), how many would be interested in trying it for daily injections? I have a really good friend who "self prescribes" trt with testosterone no ester in oil and says its way better than when he was on compounded test prop. I know its not legal, but just find it an interesting topic.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
If you didn't use an ester, would you even need an oil. Wouldn't you just use water?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
If you didn't use an ester, would you even need an oil. Wouldn't you just use water?
The water suspension is said to be more painful due to the crystals, but it is also done. The problem with using ester-less testosterone exclusively is the short half-life. Without multiple daily injections you're going to have very low serum testosterone at some points. More speculative is the possibility of creating more estradiol than with testosterone esters. If you inject into aromatase-containing tissue then in theory there's the potential for immediate aromatization.

Personally I've found TNE as a TRT adjunct to be very similar to scrotal applications of testosterone cream; there's stimulation of libido for a few days, but this fades with continued usage, and also without.
 

bbex2014

Active Member
You could absolutely use water, but the injection is significantly more painful from what he tells me, and the oil has an ever so slightly longer half life. It would be kind of like using the cream, but not having to worry about if the compounding pharmacy made it right, as the cream seems easy to f-up as there are only a handful of pharmacies that put out consistently good cream products from what I've read. Now obviously it wouldn't jack dht levels through the roof like the cream, but a lot of guys that love the cream are atleast slightly worried about super high dht levels, myself included.
 

bbex2014

Active Member
The water suspension is said to be more painful due to the crystals, but it is also done. The problem with using ester-less testosterone exclusively is the short half-life. Without multiple daily injections you're going to have very low serum testosterone at some points. More speculative is the possibility of creating more estradiol than with testosterone esters. If you inject into aromatase-containing tissue then in theory there's the potential for immediate aromatization.

Personally I've found TNE as a TRT adjunct to be very similar to scrotal applications of testosterone cream; there's stimulation of libido for a few days, but this fades with continued usage, and also without.
Awesome input man! How long did you try using TNE for your trt? Probably would work well to combine some in the syringe with some cyp for daily, but then again, why try to reinvent the wheel when seemingly so little benefit is to be had from it.
 

bbex2014

Active Member
Damn Cataceous, just saw that you were talking about this the other day in the cream+injection thread, I guess if I used the search engine I would have realized that. I agree with what you were saying in that thread btw, about breaking up the static hormone levels with something fast acting, I think there is something to that
 

camygod

Member
i honestly find it very intresting i have heard good reports from other doing this once a day who knows im guessing you wouldnt need a very high dose i want to try this just wont be able to get hold of any for a while i know its not legal but dont really care
bbex2014
do you know the dosage your friend usese ?
also was wondering if any have tryed test phenylpropionate this seems to have a more accurate raise and fall compared to test prop when dosed daily accroding to steroidcal.com
 

antelopers

Active Member
I only used TNE in high doses back when I used to run steroid cycles. It definitely is one you can feel working right away but due to the discomfort of the shots I'd never want to take it on a daily basis.
 
Started using testosterone base (testosterone without ester in oil) a couple weeks ago.

When all the hype about transdermal cream started here, I had the thought that it's not actually the transdermal application that makes people feel so good, but rather the bio identical testosterone (no ester).

Felt really good and got insane sex drive from the test base, though got some acne and life came in between. Think the sides were from DHT.

Was using between 10-20mg intramuscular once per day so far. SubQ did not work for me, though it never works for me (getting estradiol sides).

Last couple weeks was back on test prop, but will give base another try.
 
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camygod

Member
Started using testosterone base (testosterone without ester in oil) a couple weeks ago.

When all the hype about transdermal cream started here, I had the thought that it's not actually the transdermal application that makes people feel so good, but rather the bio identical testosterone (no ester).

Felt really good and got insane sex drive from the test base, though got some acne and life came in between. Think the sides were from DHT.

Was using between 10-20mg intramuscular once per day so far. SubQ did not work for me, though it never works for me (getting estradiol sides).

Last couple weeks was back on test prop, but will give base another try.
were you injecting first thing in morning?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
Awesome input man! How long did you try using TNE for your trt? Probably would work well to combine some in the syringe with some cyp for daily, but then again, why try to reinvent the wheel when seemingly so little benefit is to be had from it.
I've added it to TRT for up to a few weeks at a time, using it for 10-30% of the total testosterone dose. But for me it's been best to just take it for one or two days in every week to ten days, as with scrotal testosterone cream. Individual reactions do vary, so others may have different results.

I've speculated that frequent TNE injections could give results similar to what's claimed for Natesto, where you avoid HPTA suppression because of the quick action of the testosterone. But Natesto is probably easier considering the multiple daily needle sticks and the stings that would be involved with TNE.
 
were you injecting first thing in morning?
yes.
Think the half-life is actually longer than the information floating around. It takes the body some time to dissolve the oil. Testosterone in a thick oil like castor oil could sit around in the muscle for a couple days.
 

camygod

Member
yes.
Think the half-life is actually longer than the information floating around. It takes the body some time to dissolve the oil. Testosterone in a thick oil like castor oil could sit around in the muscle for a couple days.
does it hurt as bad as people say i never had much pain from prop unless i used a 23g needle
 
nothing out of the ordinary. a little pip.
think what people are referring to is test suspension (testosterone crystals in water) which can be really bad.
 

camygod

Member
nothing out of the ordinary. a little pip.
think what people are referring to is test suspension (testosterone crystals in water) which can be really bad.
yeah thought so as with some suspension the Crystal's are bigger so need to use bigger needle gauge Is needed
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
does it hurt as bad as people say i never had much pain from prop unless i used a 23g needle
Seems to vary a lot. Sometimes TNE going in feels just a like a bee sting, though it gets easy to ignore after a few times. For me none of the testosterone esters hurt going in, but sometimes there are injection-site reactions later in the form of itchy welts.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
....
Think the half-life is actually longer than the information floating around. It takes the body some time to dissolve the oil. Testosterone in a thick oil like castor oil could sit around in the muscle for a couple days.
Possibly with a larger dose. But my lab test results suggest that all TNE I injected was gone in less than 24 hours. This makes it all the more interesting that indirect effects seem to last for days.
 
Possibly with a larger dose. But my lab test results suggest that all TNE I injected was gone in less than 24 hours. This makes it all the more interesting that indirect effects seem to last for days.
Did you get DHT labs as well? I think the half life of DHT is way longer than the half life of Testosterone. So you might had elevated DHT levels after 24 hours from the TNE while the Test levels were back to normal already.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
Did you get DHT labs as well? I think the half life of DHT is way longer than the half life of Testosterone. So you might had elevated DHT levels after 24 hours from the TNE while the Test levels were back to normal already.
I can't rule this out. Unfortunately I don't have DHT results from any time I was experimenting with TNE. It would be interesting to know. Usually we think of testosterone injections as having muted effects on DHT, but subQ TNE might be a different animal. Not surprisingly I did see DHT increase 50% when I added 12.5 mg scrotal T cream daily to my protocol.
 

M.J

Active Member
I have been injecting sustanon, it a mixture of propionate/phenylpropionaye /isocaproate/ decanote. Currently trying only hcg monotherapy if that didn’t work I will go back to trt and increase testosterone fluctuation by doing two injections every week instead of EOD which I was doing.
I did some simple calculation and I expect by doing this I will go down 50% from my peak between injections, If swings does really matter this should show it as sustanon have much more fluctuation than enanthate and cypionate.
 
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