Dr. Thierry Hertoghe

[BadassBlues]

BTW , best knowledged ever .

Dr. Mariano knew the correlation between testosterone and dopamine. His posts and research on the subject were amazing.

 

[Forty2]

Dr. Mariano knew the correlation between testosterone and dopamine. His posts and research on the subject were amazing.

Yes his posts were amazing. Amazing enough for me to book a consultation with him.
Too bad that he's far from the amazing doctor he appeared to be online!

 

[Kenp]

Thierry Hertoghe is overrated. He isn't up to date on the current, modern trt-practices. He prescribes test E injections every 2-3 weeks and an AI to anyone above the range of estradiol.

I have a friend who's currently living in Belgium who went to the Hertoghe Clinic. He told me the Hertoghe Clinic apparently has two sides: the public side of Thierry talking passionately about hormone therapy and the money grabbing side of his uninterested doctors - Thierry himself only does consultations with high profile clients - who give everyone the standard protocol. They order expensive blood tests but don't actually do anything of importance with them. They don't track you but they still want regular appointments just to earn a paycheck.

Yes, I also have the same experience sadly. Also the doctor who you get to talk to about hormones is a dermatologist and he seems very incompetent, arrogant and not interested in what you have to say. The average bodybuilder on roids seems to know more sadly...

Also it's clear their focus is on old women getting botox, and other "longevity" grifting. That's where they make the real money. But men with hormonal problems? Hardly any money in that. Even saw some people comment that they advise some people there a sh*t ton of supplements and herbs that cost thousands of dollars/month...

The youtube videos of Hertoghe are a facade. It's really sad though, hardly any good endos on mainland europe.

But I have to mention that @K.pietera did have a good experience with Hertoghe clinic though.

 

[Keepfit1]

Yes, I also have the same experience sadly. Also the doctor who you get to talk to about hormones is a dermatologist and he seems very incompetent, arrogant and not interested in what you have to say. The average bodybuilder on roids seems to know more sadly...

Also it's clear their focus is on old women getting botox, and other "longevity" grifting. That's where they make the real money. But men with hormonal problems? Hardly any money in that. Even saw some people comment that they advise some people there a sh*t ton of supplements and herbs that cost thousands of dollars/month...

The youtube videos of Hertoghe are a facade. It's really sad though, hardly any good endos on mainland europe.

But I have to mention that @K.pietera did have a good experience with Hertoghe clinic though.

Yes the nice Dr H in the vids is misleading, the clinic is very different, I got the impression it was get the cash, yes cash, and out the door you go, far from ethical. I think they prescribe so much stuff because they get a kick back from the pharmacy. its a pity because Dr H may know a lot of stuff, but his main thing is making money out of "training" other docs and selling video courses and books and touring the world doing seminars. He has hard selling vids on youtube as if he was selling double glazing windows or used cars. Its become a bit pharsical. I think he is good at anti aging regimes for himself but I dont think they care about patients, that was my impression having been there a few times. The thing is he has a monopoly in Europe , its not like the US where their is a choice.

 

[electrify]

Yes his posts were amazing. Amazing enough for me to book a consultation with him.
Too bad that he's far from the amazing doctor he appeared to be online!

Yea, I went to him after a severe reaction to PT-141 a melanocortin peptide years ago which gave me severe anhedonia. He pretty much did not know what was going on. It did not fit into his HPA axis theories at all, bloodwork looked fine. He just told me it was psychosomatic eventually. Useless.

I ended up needing ECT. He was negative about it but I got it from another doc and it worked like a charm.

 

[Gman86]

Yea, I went to him after a severe reaction to PT-141 a melanocortin peptide years ago which gave me severe anhedonia. He pretty much did not know what was going on. It did not fit into his HPA axis theories at all, bloodwork looked fine. He just told me it was psychosomatic eventually. Useless.

I ended up needing ECT. He was negative about it but I got it from another doc and it worked like a charm.

Oh wow, so it resolved the anhedonia completely, and got u back to ur baseline before using PT-141?

how many ECT sessions did u do?

 

[electrify]

Oh wow, so it resolved the anhedonia completely, and got u back to ur baseline before using PT-141?

how many ECT sessions did u do?

Yea it did, back in Feb/Mar 2018. I dont recall exactly but it was like 12 or so sessions. I remember with unilateral was first 6 and that mainly helped anxiety a lot but I needed bilateral and after the 2nd bilateral coming home sleeping and waking up like a switching was flipped. Then I needed a few more to make it stick. My symptoms were basically akin to severe PSSD/PFS just from 1 injection of 200 mcg. The thing was hell for my body. In 2 hours got severe anhedonia with the hard on. And constant severe nausea and agitation.

Was recommended ECT because when my normal doc (not Dr M) put me on nortrip it just blunted me more, abilify made me restless He then said “all med reactions are unpredictable just do ECT”. My doc had PFS/PSSD patients for whom it worked for and thought it would work for this too. And I was desperate so I did and it paid off. I ended up with just some foggy memory of the time I got it but otherwise cognitively I was totally fine in a month, and back to grad school in 2 weeks.

The first ECT center I tried called me bipolar psychotic for injecting PT141 and said I needed to be injected antipsychotics not ECT. So I tried another place and they were willing

Even still that year I would have random dips but I would take a Klonopin+Modafinil to kinda reset them. Post orgasm id still feel kinda blunted too for like a day but over time this resolved. The worst crash was when I smoked weed (indica strain) once and it just completely numbed me, a reaction I never had prior to PT141. Thankfully subsided in a week. I completely swore off all drugs after that outside social drinking and caffeine. I was fine from 2018-aug 2022, basically 4 years no issues.

However now years later in 2022 last year the 2 drugs (alcohol and caffeine) that were ok suddenly became problematic too. In july 2022 I got covid and I was fine but then in August a fucking alcohol hangover retriggered anhedonia that never happened before. I was recovering in a week but then guess what caffeine crashed me suddenly emotionally blunted me and I became sensitive to anything noradrenergic since. Although pure dopamine or precursors are ok, and armodafinil helps a bit but has tolerance. Thankfully my anhedonia is just moderate-mild this time, and doing monthly cycles of MIF-1 seems to help me.

Turns out I have dysbiosis too. But hormonally things are still fine. They did get impacted by the stress of this problem but changes in TRT dont affect my symptoms either way.

So yea PT141 seems to have permanently planted a vulnerability to anhedonia.

It pisses me off so much and its why im so triggered and get kind of “passionate” about anhedonia symptoms. Its quite possibly the worst condition imo to have, and having simple hormonal HPA low mood/anxiety issues is nothing in comparison. And few doctors even understand anhedonia-blunting as its own condition.

Dr M was not helpful at all for anhedonia.

It also surprises me how much can induce anhedonia in vulnerable people, even Ashwagandha or NAC can do it. On this forum I even read of Tamoxifen or Arimidex doing it. Ironically, TRT despite all the scare stories turns out to be safer than all this in terms of not having this side effect.

 

[Gman86]

Yea it did, back in Feb/Mar 2018. I dont recall exactly but it was like 12 or so sessions. I remember with unilateral was first 6 and that mainly helped anxiety a lot but I needed bilateral and after the 2nd bilateral coming home sleeping and waking up like a switching was flipped. Then I needed a few more to make it stick. My symptoms were basically akin to severe PSSD/PFS just from 1 injection of 200 mcg. The thing was hell for my body. In 2 hours got severe anhedonia with the hard on. And constant severe nausea and agitation.

Was recommended ECT because when my normal doc (not Dr M) put me on nortrip it just blunted me more, abilify made me restless He then said “all med reactions are unpredictable just do ECT”. My doc had PFS/PSSD patients for whom it worked for and thought it would work for this too. And I was desperate so I did and it paid off. I ended up with just some foggy memory of the time I got it but otherwise cognitively I was totally fine in a month, and back to grad school in 2 weeks.

The first ECT center I tried called me bipolar psychotic for injecting PT141 and said I needed to be injected antipsychotics not ECT. So I tried another place and they were willing

Even still that year I would have random dips but I would take a Klonopin+Modafinil to kinda reset them. Post orgasm id still feel kinda blunted too for like a day but over time this resolved. The worst crash was when I smoked weed (indica strain) once and it just completely numbed me, a reaction I never had prior to PT141. Thankfully subsided in a week. I completely swore off all drugs after that outside social drinking and caffeine. I was fine from 2018-aug 2022, basically 4 years no issues.

However now years later in 2022 last year the 2 drugs (alcohol and caffeine) that were ok suddenly became problematic too. In july 2022 I got covid and I was fine but then in August a fucking alcohol hangover retriggered anhedonia that never happened before. I was recovering in a week but then guess what caffeine crashed me suddenly emotionally blunted me and I became sensitive to anything noradrenergic since. Although pure dopamine or precursors are ok, and armodafinil helps a bit but has tolerance. Thankfully my anhedonia is just moderate-mild this time, and doing monthly cycles of MIF-1 seems to help me.

Turns out I have dysbiosis too. But hormonally things are still fine. They did get impacted by the stress of this problem but changes in TRT dont affect my symptoms either way.

So yea PT141 seems to have permanently planted a vulnerability to anhedonia.

It pisses me off so much and its why im so triggered and get kind of “passionate” about anhedonia symptoms. Its quite possibly the worst condition imo to have, and having simple hormonal HPA low mood/anxiety issues is nothing in comparison. And few doctors even understand anhedonia-blunting as its own condition.

Dr M was not helpful at all for anhedonia.

It also surprises me how much can induce anhedonia in vulnerable people, even Ashwagandha or NAC can do it. On this forum I even read of Tamoxifen or Arimidex doing it. Ironically, TRT despite all the scare stories turns out to be safer than all this in terms of not having this side effect.

Awesome. Thank u so much for the detailed response. I appreciate it more than u know. And I agree, imo depression and anhedonia are two of the worst conditions for sure. Unless u’ve experienced both, u really can’t even begin to understand what it’s like to not only not feel any pleasure from anything in life, but to then feel depressed and feel like there’s 100% no hope of anything ever getting better is just absolute torture 24/7. If u’ve experienced that combo, it’s extremely understandable why some people that deal with these conditions commit suicide. I don’t blame them whatsoever. It can be literal torture simply waking up and having to go through another full day feeling those ways.

Luckily I’ve only felt like that for a few months out of my entire life. When I was on Clomid monotherapy taking 50mg/ day. I was definitely suicidal during that time. Just too much of a pussy to ever come close to actually doing it. I normally have basically no depression, so maybe feeling so bad was worse for me than someone that’s used to feeling so horrible, idk. But it was literal torture every single day.

I do feel like I could enjoy things more, most of the time, but if I do have some anhedonia going on, it’s not too bad. I do think there’s room for improvement tho, as far as me enjoying things in life to the degree I used to before HRT.

but anyways, thanks again for the anecdotes, and I agree, losing enjoyment for things in life is a very big deal, and it would be amazing if more people were aware of certain things that could alter the way we experience and enjoy life. At least make it so we are all aware of anything and everything that could alter it, no matter how small or big the risk, and then let people decide for themselves if the pros outweigh the cons/ the risk is worth it, in regards to whatever it is they want to try

 

[Kenp]

He then said “all med reactions are unpredictable just do ECT”. My doc had PFS/PSSD patients for whom it worked for and thought it would work for this too. And I was desperate so I did and it paid off.

Oh very interesting I have PFS. ECT is electroshock right? How does that work?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Yea it did, back in Feb/Mar 2018. I dont recall exactly but it was like 12 or so sessions. I remember with unilateral was first 6 and that mainly helped anxiety a lot but I needed bilateral and after the 2nd bilateral coming home sleeping and waking up like a switching was flipped. Then I needed a few more to make it stick. My symptoms were basically akin to severe PSSD/PFS just from 1 injection of 200 mcg. The thing was hell for my body. In 2 hours got severe anhedonia with the hard on. And constant severe nausea and agitation.

Was recommended ECT because when my normal doc (not Dr M) put me on nortrip it just blunted me more, abilify made me restless He then said “all med reactions are unpredictable just do ECT”. My doc had PFS/PSSD patients for whom it worked for and thought it would work for this too. And I was desperate so I did and it paid off. I ended up with just some foggy memory of the time I got it but otherwise cognitively I was totally fine in a month, and back to grad school in 2 weeks.

The first ECT center I tried called me bipolar psychotic for injecting PT141 and said I needed to be injected antipsychotics not ECT. So I tried another place and they were willing

Even still that year I would have random dips but I would take a Klonopin+Modafinil to kinda reset them. Post orgasm id still feel kinda blunted too for like a day but over time this resolved. The worst crash was when I smoked weed (indica strain) once and it just completely numbed me, a reaction I never had prior to PT141. Thankfully subsided in a week. I completely swore off all drugs after that outside social drinking and caffeine. I was fine from 2018-aug 2022, basically 4 years no issues.

However now years later in 2022 last year the 2 drugs (alcohol and caffeine) that were ok suddenly became problematic too. In july 2022 I got covid and I was fine but then in August a fucking alcohol hangover retriggered anhedonia that never happened before. I was recovering in a week but then guess what caffeine crashed me suddenly emotionally blunted me and I became sensitive to anything noradrenergic since. Although pure dopamine or precursors are ok, and armodafinil helps a bit but has tolerance. Thankfully my anhedonia is just moderate-mild this time, and doing monthly cycles of MIF-1 seems to help me.

Turns out I have dysbiosis too. But hormonally things are still fine. They did get impacted by the stress of this problem but changes in TRT dont affect my symptoms either way.

So yea PT141 seems to have permanently planted a vulnerability to anhedonia.

It pisses me off so much and its why im so triggered and get kind of “passionate” about anhedonia symptoms. Its quite possibly the worst condition imo to have, and having simple hormonal HPA low mood/anxiety issues is nothing in comparison. And few doctors even understand anhedonia-blunting as its own condition.

Dr M was not helpful at all for anhedonia.

It also surprises me how much can induce anhedonia in vulnerable people, even Ashwagandha or NAC can do it. On this forum I even read of Tamoxifen or Arimidex doing it. Ironically, TRT despite all the scare stories turns out to be safer than all this in terms of not having this side effect.

Thank you for the details of what you were experiencing from PT-141 and your response to ECT. I have treatment resistant bipolar/mixed state, non-restorative sleep & CPTSD. Anhedonia is ever present in my life. My psychiatrist suggested ECT but as I'm caring for my wife, who is into her 17th month of rapidly progressing Alzheimer's, I need to be present and functional, so I just limp along, emotionally, day after day.

She's not the first doctor to discuss ECT. When we lived in Maryland, a noted psychiatrist at the NIH, whom I was going to, gave me a referral to a doctor who did ECT, exclusively, but I was(and still am)fearful of significant memory loss. But, again, ECT is moot at this time.

Also on TRT and for a day or two after my injection, my mood is a bit better. Currently doing 70 mg 2X weekly but wondering if 50 mg 3X weekly might be better. However, without consistently restorative sleep, with or without mood problems, you can't feel mentally or physically good.

 

[Gman86]

@electrify did u experience any memory loss, that ur aware of, from ur ECT treatments?

 

[electrify]

@electrify did u experience any memory loss, that ur aware of, from ur ECT treatments?

No thankfully I didn't. I also took Galantamine though 4 mg bid since a few days before and during the treatments. Some studies said it prevented memory loss, and I can't be sure it was that but yea. I did feel kinda foggy for a few weeks but that subsided in a month. I was back to school for the spring quarter in 2 weeks after the last treatment which ended in March 2018

I'm actually surprised that more people haven't done it for say PSSD/PFS. I know my doc has patients who have though and it worked in a handful of cases.

It was a fucking nightmare and im glad I did it. No way in hell was I going to follow protocols for PSSD/PFS (technically didn't have it, but PT141 gave me symptoms mimicking that) in that state. Was completely hopeless and then a switch flipped.

Dr M said ECT wouldn't work, but it was BS. He was saying "Go do ACT therapy and mindfulness". Hogwash. I had a severe injury from the melanocortin.

From that whole episode though I feel like our entire reality is biologically deterministic and we have no free will. Almost seems like CBT, psychotherapy etc is complete BS to me, but it's understandable I guess given my experiences. I've never had a mental health condition that wasn't physiologically triggered.

I went to group therapy at school when I had the PT141 issue and literally nobody in the room had symptoms that even came close to mine and it all sounded so trivial liek "I broke up with my girlfriend im depressed, im stressed by school" type of stuff meanwhile my physiology is literally on fire from the melanocortin reaction and I have anhedonia these people haven't even heard the term before.

 

[electrify]

Thank you for the details of what you were experiencing from PT-141 and your response to ECT. I have treatment resistant bipolar/mixed state, non-restorative sleep & CPTSD. Anhedonia is ever present in my life. My psychiatrist suggested ECT but as I'm caring for my wife, who is into her 17th month of rapidly progressing Alzheimer's, I need to be present and functional, so I just limp along, emotionally, day after day.

She's not the first doctor to discuss ECT. When we lived in Maryland, a noted psychiatrist at the NIH, whom I was going to, gave me a referral to a doctor who did ECT, exclusively, but I was(and still am)fearful of significant memory loss. But, again, ECT is moot at this time.

Also on TRT and for a day or two after my injection, my mood is a bit better. Currently doing 70 mg 2X weekly but wondering if 50 mg 3X weekly might be better. However, without consistently restorative sleep, with or without mood problems, you can't feel mentally or physically good.

Oh damn, have you had anhedonia your whole life basically?

I can understand being wary of ECT, especially the risks of memory loss are higher with age. I was 24 when I had it.

 

[Rod0141]

I can only agree with others. Overrated clinic, excessive fees and expensive tests mostly ignored by doctors. A total waste of money. My impression after one visit is those doctors do not know their hormones but prescribe lots of them to cover up their ignorance. They are just self-trained GPs. I think things must have worked better in the past as the clinic used to have a good reputation. Now, it is like an assembly line where everyone gets the same treatment. A great shame.