Considering weaning off of TRT

madman

Super Moderator
On the practical side, my urologist has patients that only respond when their total is 1500 or higher and it's a given that their free T is also high. The reasons why some men only respond to high doses of testosterone, whether injected, topical or pellets isn't really known and the knowledgeable doctors who prescribe TRT, will treat until there's symptom resolution. I referred to an abstract in Frontiers of Immunology about vitamin D resistance and the two possible causes stated are either VDR polymorphisms or pathogens that block or blunt vitamin D receptors. And the way to treat is to keep titrating until the resistance is overcome.

Whether in the case of testosterone or vitamin D or even thyroid resistance, the only practical way is to push the dose but, in the case of testosterone, there could be deleterious effects or problems from prolonged high dosing. It isn't perfect, but until the underlying mechanisms of resistance are discovered and can be corrected, treating until symptom resolution is all we have.


Within reason.....sure!

You need to keep in mind that most are not being treated by doctors in the know let alone have no clue how exogenous esterified T works.

Unfortunately, most are caught up on the more T is the better mentality let alone many are jacked up on T from the get-go.

Top it all of that whether one is starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) many never give the protocol a fighting chance (12 weeks) and are destined for failure.

You know the ones upping their T dose every 6 weeks because they do not feel well!

These are the same men chasing their tales endlessly caught up on that never-ending. merry go round

Many also tend to have unrealistic expectations thinking high T levels will cure everything that ails them.

These same individuals get caught up searching for something that will never be there.

Although symptom resolution is what truly matters avoiding/minimizing sides let alone maintaining healthy blood markers long-term is key.
 

MIP1950

Member
Within reason.....sure!

You need to keep in mind that most are not being treated by doctors in the know let alone have no clue how exogenous esterified T works.

Unfortunately, most are caught up on the more T is the better mentality let alone many are jacked up on T from the get-go.

Top it all of that whether one is starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) many never give the protocol a fighting chance (12 weeks) and are destined for failure.

You know the ones upping their T dose every 6 weeks because they do not feel well!

These are the same men chasing their tales endlessly caught up on that never-ending. merry go round

Many also tend to have unrealistic expectations thinking high T levels will cure everything that ails them.

These same individuals get caught up searching for something that will never be there.

Although symptom resolution is what truly matters avoiding/minimizing sides let alone maintaining healthy blood markers long-term is key.
Agree.
 

nippy

Member
Sorry to hear that you're being sent to a by the book narrow minded endo. Regarding cellular resistance, from what I've read and discussed with my urologist, for reasons unknown, standard dosing of T(100 to 200 mg) doesn't produce the desired results, even if the labs look good, or even excellent. Some malfunction in the hypothalamus is what my doctor says. For some men, a dose that is much higher is 'seen' by malfunctioning or desensitized androgen receptors, as with you responding to 400 mg. I'm not going to say it's that simple and straightforward. If the hypothalamus is malfunctioning, thyroid medication might be needed, even though labs read normal. That is where a doctor who THINKS is needed, not someone who just looks at labs. Maybe there's vitamin D resistance. Just read an abstract about that and it's utterly fascinating. I'm guessing that the private doctors in the UK are expensive, as well as the private men's clinics. Keep trying, man. Don't give up.
Hi . Thanks . I actually bought thyroid medication. T3 and T4 but now nit sure what to . I have spent £ thousands for docs telling me I'm optimised. How can I be feeling rough tired and no libdio. Waking at 3 am every day and mouth as dry as sandpaper .
 

MIP1950

Member
Hi . Thanks . I actually bought thyroid medication. T3 and T4 but now nit sure what to . I have spent £ thousands for docs telling me I'm optimised. How can I be feeling rough tired and no libdio. Waking at 3 am every day and mouth as dry as sandpaper .
Apnea or some other sleep problem? My psychiatrist told me not every sleep problem is apnea. Have you consulted a sleep specialist or even a psychiatrist? (Not implying you have any psych problems.) I have severe bipolar illness and after 17 years, I tried lamotrigine,(an anti-epileptic medicine used off label for mood problems)once again, and this time it's working. Mood is stable and sleep is improving. My point; sometimes the obvious problem isn't the obvious problem. Read about the late businessman Jack Dreyfus and his experiences with Dilantin(phenytoin), another anti-epileptic drug). It dramatically changed his life and it helped people he knew who had no obvious or diagnosed mood problems. Lamotrigine is an equally remarkable drug. Might be worth looking into for either drug.
 

nippy

Member
Apnea or some other sleep problem? My psychiatrist told me not every sleep problem is apnea. Have you consulted a sleep specialist or even a psychiatrist? (Not implying you have any psych problems.) I have severe bipolar illness and after 17 years, I tried lamotrigine,(an anti-epileptic medicine used off label for mood problems)once again, and this time it's working. Mood is stable and sleep is improving. My point; sometimes the obvious problem isn't the obvious problem. Read about the late businessman Jack Dreyfus and his experiences with Dilantin(phenytoin), another anti-epileptic drug). It dramatically changed his life and it helped people he knew who had no obvious or diagnosed mood problems. Lamotrigine is an equally remarkable drug. Might be worth looking into for either drug.
Thanks for the reply . No offence taken. I think I have depression and I have been diagnosed with personality disorder and OCD. I was offered tablets but said no. That's because the antidepressants stopped my libido and crated numbness in the penis. I didn't want to take another drug that would effect my already low desire ( as the doc told me they would ) so didn't want to make it worse ... I will have a look into what you say ..thank you . I really think it must be psychological as there is nothing I have not tried .... Iv been looking in to 2 CB a lsd drug. Illegal but people day it helps... .. much appreciate your advice and help
 

MIP1950

Member
Thanks for the reply . No offence taken. I think I have depression and I have been diagnosed with personality disorder and OCD. I was offered tablets but said no. That's because the antidepressants stopped my libido and crated numbness in the penis. I didn't want to take another drug that would effect my already low desire ( as the doc told me they would ) so didn't want to make it worse ... I will have a look into what you say ..thank you . I really think it must be psychological as there is nothing I have not tried .... Iv been looking in to 2 CB a lsd drug. Illegal but people day it helps... .. much appreciate your advice and help
Regarding lamotrigine, I've read on drugs.com that some men and women experienced an improved libido, likely, IMO, because the medication has a pronounce anti-depressant effect at lower dosing. I'm just starting at 25 mg but it seems to be stabilizing my mood. But, if I don't see improvement in erectile function over the next few months, I'm going to ask my urologist about Trimix, which you inject into the side of the penis. I'm okay with that. Though my wife has told me she's through with sex, I want my erections back! Don't feel like a whole man without them.
 

nippy

Member
Regarding lamotrigine, I've read on drugs.com that some men and women experienced an improved libido, likely, IMO, because the medication has a pronounce anti-depressant effect at lower dosing. I'm just starting at 25 mg but it seems to be stabilizing my mood. But, if I don't see improvement in erectile function over the next few months, I'm going to ask my urologist about Trimix, which you inject into the side of the penis. I'm okay with that. Though my wife has told me she's through with sex, I want my erections back! Don't feel like a whole man without them.
Yeah mate . Totally understand. I took Cialis yesterday and I was hard . Also woke up two hours ago with erection. I masterbate yesterd and eventually orgasmed... I'm thinking I need more sexual stimulation. I have a partner and live them but sex is stale . It's never anything different even when I suggest ... . I want to wake up and think he'll I need to fuck . I miss that feeling . Yeah I've heard about that I section. Mmmmm
 

MIP1950

Member
Yeah mate . Totally understand. I took Cialis yesterday and I was hard . Also woke up two hours ago with erection. I masterbate yesterd and eventually orgasmed... I'm thinking I need more sexual stimulation. I have a partner and live them but sex is stale . It's never anything different even when I suggest ... . I want to wake up and think he'll I need to fuck . I miss that feeling . Yeah I've heard about that I section. Mmmmm
It's great that you get a good response to Cialis! My urologist told me that a man has to have a total T of at least 600 ng/dL to get a response to oral erectile meds. Maybe that's all you need, along with a more adventurous sex partner.

I'm really at a disadvantage regarding PDE-5 inhibitors. Cialis at low dose gives me a nasty headache that lasts a day to a day and a half. Never tried Viagra. I have Vardenafil and I can reasonably tolerate it, though it messes with my sleep and stomach. Taking a pill would so much easier and convenient than an injection in the penis, LOL. Cialis is the winner since it lasts for 3 days. I read an abstract where men were given 20 mg of Cialis, I believe 3 times a week. Several of them had spontaneous erections return. I can only sadly dream of that. :(
 

nippy

Member
It's great that you get a good response to Cialis! My urologist told me that a man has to have a total T of at least 600 ng/dL to get a response to oral erectile meds. Maybe that's all you need, along with a more adventurous sex partner.

I'm really at a disadvantage regarding PDE-5 inhibitors. Cialis at low dose gives me a nasty headache that lasts a day to a day and a half. Never tried Viagra. I have Vardenafil and I can reasonably tolerate it, though it messes with my sleep and stomach. Taking a pill would so much easier and convenient than an injection in the penis, LOL. Cialis is the winner since it lasts for 3 days. I read an abstract where men were given 20 mg of Cialis, I believe 3 times a week. Several of them had spontaneous erections return. I can only sadly dream of that. :(
That's a shame that Cialis isn't for you ... The thing is with me I've just woke up . It's 6 am with morning wood but no desire to do anything with it . None whatsoever lolol so really why am I taking it lol . I've not injected now for nearly a week. Might see if I can go another week then I'll start again with a higher dose and it may boost my libido like it did back in January. That trimex u mentioned sounds great ... Does it hurt lol
 

MIP1950

Member
That's a shame that Cialis isn't for you ... The thing is with me I've just woke up . It's 6 am with morning wood but no desire to do anything with it . None whatsoever lolol so really why am I taking it lol . I've not injected now for nearly a week. Might see if I can go another week then I'll start again with a higher dose and it may boost my libido like it did back in January. That trimex u mentioned sounds great ... Does it hurt lol
Erection without libido. Mate, at least you've got half of it working! I better understand your situation. I'm not as knowledgeable as a few(or many) of the other guys on this forum, but maybe more T is a solution. Just a guess. As for Trimix, never tried it but I've read men saying it's painless. 30g, 1/2 inch needle. I'd use 31 gauge.

Yesterday morning, went back to subq and was awakened by an erection! My wife and I sleep in separate bedrooms because of sleep issues but the wood was good enough for a quick slap and tickle, LOL.
 

MIP1950

Member
That's a shame that Cialis isn't for you ... The thing is with me I've just woke up . It's 6 am with morning wood but no desire to do anything with it . None whatsoever lolol so really why am I taking it lol . I've not injected now for nearly a week. Might see if I can go another week then I'll start again with a higher dose and it may boost my libido like it did back in January. That trimex u mentioned sounds great ... Does it hurt lol
How's your vitamin D level? D increases dopamine. I live in Florida, half a block from the beach, have a tan but my D level was low/insufficiency. Because I have autoimmune/allergy issues, I'm taking a high dose of D/50,000 IU, daily and 10 mg of K2/Mk4. K2 is needed to put calcium in the bones and teeth. Look up, on Amazon, Jeff T. Bowles. He's a self taught researcher who has used high dose D and has written books about his experiences, as well as citing research.
 

nippy

Member
How's your vitamin D level? D increases dopamine. I live in Florida, half a block from the beach, have a tan but my D level was low/insufficiency. Because I have autoimmune/allergy issues, I'm taking a high dose of D/50,000 IU, daily and 10 mg of K2/Mk4. K2 is needed to put calcium in the bones and teeth. Look up, on Amazon, Jeff T. Bowles. He's a self taught researcher who has used high dose D and has written books about his experiences, as well as citing research.
I take a vit d supplement every day ... Can't rem what amount . I'll check when I'm home . Oh I don't take k
 

nippy

Member
Erection without libido. Mate, at least you've got half of it working! I better understand your situation. I'm not as knowledgeable as a few(or many) of the other guys on this forum, but maybe more T is a solution. Just a guess. As for Trimix, never tried it but I've read men saying it's painless. 30g, 1/2 inch needle. I'd use 31 gauge.

Yesterday morning, went back to subq and was awakened by an erection! My wife and I sleep in separate bedrooms because of sleep issues but the wood was good enough for a quick slap and tickle, LOL.
Hahah at least a quick slap and tickle was good. Yes I do IM injection and was wondering if sub q would make be feel better ...
 

MIP1950

Member
Hahah at least a quick slap and tickle was good. Yes I do IM injection and was wondering if sub q would make be feel better ...
I'm trying subq to slow down the uptake of T and give me a steadier level that will last longer. I was doing IM for a long time and it's highly effective but I was going on for months with rare or no erections, especially during the night. I'll stay on subq for a few months. The real test is erectile function and sex drive. My doctor likes to see labs but he agrees that if the equipment is working then he and the patient need to re-evaluate...but, I've read in abstracts of a man who was on T(undecanoate) and it took three years for all his metabolic, cardiac and erectile issues to resolve. For another man, on Test E, it took five years.

I suspect you're a younger man than me. I'm 71 and I'm eager to restore sexual function, even if my wife refuses me. Restoring my erections isn't about ego; it's about physical and emotional health.
 

nippy

Member
I'm trying subq to slow down the uptake of T and give me a steadier level that will last longer. I was doing IM for a long time and it's highly effective but I was going on for months with rare or no erections, especially during the night. I'll stay on subq for a few months. The real test is erectile function and sex drive. My doctor likes to see labs but he agrees that if the equipment is working then he and the patient need to re-evaluate...but, I've read in abstracts of a man who was on T(undecanoate) and it took three years for all his metabolic, cardiac and erectile issues to resolve. For another man, on Test E, it took five years.

I suspect you're a younger man than me. I'm 71 and I'm eager to restore sexual function, even if my wife refuses me. Restoring my erections isn't about ego; it's about physical and emotional health.
I agree, ego doesn't come in to it . . With me also it's about emotional mental health... So do you think sub q would be a possibility for me to try. . Seeing I've had worse ED ?
 

MIP1950

Member
I agree, ego doesn't come in to it . . With me also it's about emotional mental health... So do you think sub q would be a possibility for me to try. . Seeing I've had worse ED ?
Ultimately, experimenting is all we have. My opinion is try it. Maybe coincidence but I injected 150 mg, which equals 105 mg w/o the ester, early yesterday morning and I'm super horny sex on the brain, along with some mild erectile function. That's as unscientific as it comes.
 

nippy

Member
Ultimately, experimenting is all we have. My opinion is try it. Maybe coincidence but I injected 150 mg, which equals 105 mg w/o the ester, early yesterday morning and I'm super horny sex on the brain, along with some mild erectile function. That's as unscientific as it comes.
I like it lol it's been a week since I have Injected . I may go back to every day . I seem.more stable on them... I checked and my free t and E2 were higher on ed I sections sub q... I'm on testosterone E. Can that be done sub q?
 

MIP1950

Member
I like it lol it's been a week since I have Injected . I may go back to every day . I seem.more stable on them... I checked and my free t and E2 were higher on ed I sections sub q... I'm on testosterone E. Can that be done sub q?
It was even difficult to get to sleep. Had to relieve myself and blissfully fell asleep. As for Test E subq, yes. I'm on Test E. Even propionate can be done subq.
 

nippy

Member
It was even difficult to get to sleep. Had to relieve myself and blissfully fell asleep. As for Test E subq, yes. I'm on Test E. Even propionate can be done subq.
I used to be on test p doing IM.... I have been off t now over a week and can't take it anymore . The mood swings , the snapping .... Back on it from Friday .... How often do you Inject ?
 

MIP1950

Member
I used to be on test p doing IM.... I have been off t now over a week and can't take it anymore . The mood swings , the snapping .... Back on it from Friday .... How often do you inject?

I used to be on test p doing IM.... I have been off t now over a week and can't take it anymore . The mood swings , the snapping .... Back on it from Friday .... How often do you Inject ?
Every 7 days.
 

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