Why the Mood Stinks 5 out of 7 days?

[KenLowT]

Hi everybody,
As I have said in previous posts, my endo prescribed me 175mg of testosterone cypionate every 14 days. I instead chose to give myself my medication every 7 days after reading of the stupidity of injecting every 14 days. I also know that my dosage is probably too high for a beginner so I'm adjusting that to 100 mg a week, 2x weekly of 50mgs starting this upcoming Wednesday.

This is my third week on testosterone therapy and what I've noticed is a pattern of only feeling really good on 2 of the seven days of the week. Typically I inject on a Wednesday morning because I read that it peaks in 72 hours which lines up with Saturday for me. I'm taking test mostly because I have no libido among other reasons, so I was hoping that Saturday would be my high libido day which would line up perfect. However, what I have found out is that I usually experience two really good days where my mood is great, I have tons of positive energy and my still low libido comes up slightly. These days are always consecutive, but not necessarily on Saturday and Sunday when I expect them to peak. This past week, after my 3rd injection, i felt crappy Wed-Fri, great Sat & Sun, and now on Monday I'm really moody and irritable. On Week 2 I felt better on Monday and Tuesday, and either so-so or bad the rest of the days.

Another thing I've noticed is that my libido diminishes as the day goes on. I usually feel it mid day or right after my morning workout when I guess my endorphins are flowing. However, when nighttime comes, it's gone, there is nothing left in the tank! It has me frustrated because whatever libido boost the test is giving me does not come at the most opportune time which should be at night when I'm laying with my wife. I'm aware that testosterone is strongest in the morning and then dies down towards the end of the day yet that doesn't stop any other man my age from getting it on at night. What gives?

What can i attribute my feeling good for only 2 or 3 out of 7 days? What about the lost libido at nighttime thing? Don't get me wrong, the testosterone is doing wonders for me in the gym and I'm finally starting to lose weight again. The libido has gone from a 0 to a solid 4 which is baby steps, but it's progress. Hopefully things will improve, but I'm wondering if anybody else has had the same issues as I have. I'm at a loss. Thanks for your help, Excel!

 

[Systemlord]

Every time you change your dosage, it takes 6 weeks to reach a stable state, so for 6 weeks blood testosterone will fluctuate/rollercoaster. If you keep switching protocols you reset everything and it's another six weeks to reach a stable.

You need to stick to a protocol and draw labs at the 6 week mark and find out your numbers. If you feel unwell by 6 weeks the numbers will tell all, pay close attention to your estrogen level using the LC/MS/MS test.

 

[KenLowT]

Every time you change your dosage, it takes 6 weeks to reach a stable state, so for 6 weeks blood testosterone will fluctuate/rollercoaster. If you keep switching protocols you reset everything and it's another six weeks to reach a stable.

You need to stick to a protocol and draw labs at the 6 week mark and find out your numbers. If you feel unwell by 6 weeks the numbers will tell all, pay close attention to your estrogen level using the LC/MS/MS test.

If that's the case, do you recommend me staying at this current dosage for the next 3 weeks since I'm about to be on Week 4 of 175 mg? Or do you suggest dropping down to 100 mg that was recommended in another post? My next injection is tomorrow and then that's when I was planning on going lower.

 

[Gman86]

Do you know your SHBG level?

 

[KenLowT]

Do you know your SHBG level?

Yes. See below.

 

[FeelingLost]

Yes. See below.
View attachment 5289

Typically I inject on a Wednesday morning because I read that it peaks in 72 hours which lines up with Saturday for me. I'm taking test mostly because I have no libido among other reasons, so I was hoping that Saturday would be my high libido day which would line up perfect.

HiKen, I don't know who told you this but it is wrong. T cyp peaks in 24 hours and some will say 48 but no more. An if that is the case you are feeling your best as your TT is falling off. You are sliding thru your sweet spot. Also remember E follows T so shortly after your T peaks your E2 peaks an that could be why you feel moody.

HTH

PS I have a SHGB of 24.2 very close to yours and 100-120 is all I need to get my Freet T to 39 with the top of the range being 18
With a low SHGB you should also consider 3 shots a week M/W/F

On the subject of continue at 175 or switch. Your TT and E2 will only be going up from here at 3 weeks. I don't think more TT and E2 will make you feel better. WHY continue with a protocol that is junk. Switch now and restart the clock.

 

[BigBamBoo]

WHY continue with a protocol that is junk. Switch now and restart the clock.

^^^^ This right here.

 

[Saul]

"Why the Mood Stinks 5 out of 7 days?"

Those are called weekdays. The two good days are the weekends !

 

[KenLowT]

HiKen, I don't know who told you this but it is wrong. T cyp peaks in 24 hours and some will say 48 but no more. An if that is the case you are feeling your best as your TT is falling off. You are sliding thru your sweet spot. Also remember E follows T so shortly after your T peaks your E2 peaks an that could be why you feel moody.

HTH

PS I have a SHGB of 24.2 very close to yours and 100-120 is all I need to get my Freet T to 39 with the top of the range being 18
With a low SHGB you should also consider 3 shots a week M/W/F

On the subject of continue at 175 or switch. Your TT and E2 will only be going up from here at 3 weeks. I don't think more TT and E2 will make you feel better. WHY continue with a protocol that is junk. Switch now and restart the clock.

I agree, I'm thinking this High T is probably causing high estrogen as well which is why I feel like junk for most of the week. I'll switch starting tomorrow. My fear is that since my libido is low now on this dose, what will a lower dose to it. I'm not experiencing any of the estrogen symptoms thus far; no nipple soreness, however my face is getting puffy which I don't understand.

I'll try to injections per week. The SHBG I quoted was during HCG Monotherapy. My untreated SHBG was a 34. We'll see how they make me feel.

 

[FeelingLost]

HI again Ken, This is going to sound crazy but my E2 effects my libido and ED way more than my T level.
I did experience some intense libido issues when I got my TT over 1100 but at normal T levels it is all E2 for me.
When my E2 is high my libido is just not there. Low SHGB guys need lower E2's than high SHGB guys.
E2=20-28 feels best for me. I can tolerate a 35 but any higher I am a mess.

 

[Saul]

My fear is that since my libido is low now on this dose, what will a lower dose to it.

Libido can take a long time to come back. 3 weeks is not enough time. Think in terms of months not weeks - I compare it to weight lifting or gardening. And, more is not always better. You want to find the spot that is best for you - could be more or could be less.

 

[KenLowT]

HI again Ken, This is going to sound crazy but my E2 effects my libido and ED way more than my T level.
I did experience some intense libido issues when I got my TT over 1100 but at normal T levels it is all E2 for me.
When my E2 is high my libido is just not there. Low SHGB guys need lower E2's than high SHGB guys.
E2=20-28 feels best for me. I can tolerate a 35 but any higher I am a mess.

That is interesting. I just had my blood drawn with my endo. Once I come back from vacay I'll know what how high or low it is. The test won't be as accurate though because it's not the E2 sensitive test, but I want to see if it's higher than the 33 i had pre-treatment.

Once my insurance stopped paying for my HCG monotherapy at the end of May, my libido went to zero and I had ED. Who knows if estrogen played a part with that.

 

[KenLowT]

Libido can take a long time to come back. 3 weeks is not enough time. Think in terms of months not weeks - I compare it to weight lifting or gardening. And, more is not always better. You want to find the spot that is best for you - could be more or could be less.

That's unfortunate, perhaps I had unrealistic expectations then. Months? Wow, I hope the wife will understand.

 

[Gman86]

How was your libido and ED on HCG mono? How were you feeling overall on HCG mono?

 

[KenLowT]

How was your libido and ED on HCG mono? How were you feeling overall on HCG mono?

Good question. I really did not feel anything while on HCG Monotherapy. My libido went from a 0 to maybe a 3 if anything. I started in February and stopped at the end of May. I was doing 1000 units 3x per week injections. Initially I felt a little bit more energy, but nothing like being on T. My ED was off and on while on HCG Monotherapy. I usually got ED when my wife was in the mood, but I was not. Once my insurance stopped covering the HCG I was forced to get off it cold turkey and I experienced the worst ED and lack of penis sensitivity I have ever had. It freaked me out beyond belief. I appealed to my insurance through my doctor and still have not heard from them. Knowing that this would happen, I gave in and asked my doc to prescribe me T since HCG looked out of the question.

I did start to gain a little bit of libido when she bumped up my injections to 2000iu's 3x weekly, but then that's when my insurance cut it off. It wasn't a drastic change, I would say one day out of the seven I had a good libido. The only other positive effect was that I was producing more semen, but it's not like my testes were filled. That's why I'm wondering if I have primary hypogonadism. My total T did not go up on HCG monotherapy, it actually went like 9 points down in the high 300's. My Free T went up 9 points, but barely.

I'm hoping my endo will prescribe me the HCG in combination with the Testosterone Cypionate. I doubt she will because when I brought it up with her at our last meeting in May she told me it was overkill. I'm going to present it to her as a supplement to keep my fertility, not to boost my total T. If she says no then I'm relegated to seek help elsewhere. I see her on July 18th.

 

[ratbag]

What hasn't been said here is that the protocols you are following don't work. This is the very reason 85% of men who start TRT stop within 6 months. To make TRT work the MD must have experience in the protocols that work and what you describe as your protocols for testosterone and HCG have no chance of working ever. This is why you constantly read here that we suggest going to our sponsor Defy Medical because they know how to make it work while regular MD's have a one in one hundred chance of getting you dialed in. Having said that, since your SHBG is normal you don't really need to take more than 2 shots per week of testosterone(every 3.5 days, E3.5D). One big shot a week does not work unless you have very high SHBG. And 1 big shot every 14 days tells us your MD has no idea about TRT protocols.

 

[KenLowT]

What hasn't been said here is that the protocols you are following don't work. This is the very reason 85% of men who start TRT stop within 6 months. To make TRT work the MD must have experience in the protocols that work and what you describe as your protocols for testosterone and HCG have no chance of working ever. This is why you constantly read here that we suggest going to our sponsor Defy Medical because they know how to make it work while regular MD's have a one in one hundred chance of getting you dialed in. Having said that, since your SHBG is normal you don't really need to take more than 2 shots per week of testosterone(every 3.5 days, E3.5D). One big shot a week does not work unless you have very high SHBG. And 1 big shot every 14 days tells us your MD has no idea about TRT protocols.

Today I dropped my dose to 100 mg per week, 50 mg 2x weekly. I know that going to my endo is not ideal, but she is one of the best in the area. I'm going to see at this next meeting if she'll treat me with both Testosterone and HCG. If she does not then it'll make my decision easier. Still, I have medical insurance for a reason and I really hate that I have to pay more out of pocket going outside of my network. I am strongly considering Defy, but there are other considerations as well:

1. Do I have to purchase my medications through them or can I get them from my pharmacy?
2. They seem really busy at Defy since a lot of men on here are using them. I worry about the quality of care if I'm relegated to a Physician Assistant much of the time.
3. How much can really get done over the phone, will not sitting down with an actual doctor effect the level of treatment.
4. Out of pocket cost always a consideration.

I wish it was as easy as saying yeah I'll go to Defy. I'm leaning towards seeing them anyway, but I just wish there I could receive the level of care they could give me (with insurance) or at least someone in my area that could do the same.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Today I dropped my dose to 100 mg per week, 50 mg 2x weekly. I know that going to my endo is not ideal, but she is one of the best in the area. I'm going to see at this next meeting if she'll treat me with both Testosterone and HCG. If she does not then it'll make my decision easier. Still, I have medical insurance for a reason and I really hate that I have to pay more out of pocket going outside of my network. I am strongly considering Defy, but there are other considerations as well:

1. Do I have to purchase my medications through them or can I get them from my pharmacy?
2. They seem really busy at Defy since a lot of men on here are using them. I worry about the quality of care if I'm relegated to a Physician Assistant much of the time.
3. How much can really get done over the phone, will not sitting down with an actual doctor effect the level of treatment.
4. Out of pocket cost always a consideration.

I wish it was as easy as saying yeah I'll go to Defy. I'm leaning towards seeing them anyway, but I just wish there I could receive the level of care they could give me (with insurance) or at least someone in my area that could do the same.

Call Defy and ask them these questions/express your concerns. They won't dodge. I have no vested interest in Defy's success, or Prime Body's success, the other sponsoring practice; I'm a Canadian. You're entitled to answers up front.

I can tell you, in regard to some of your questions, you - the patient - choose your Defy provider. You aren't "relegated" to anyone. Nobody can speak to your financial situation, but consider your automobile. You can take it to the mechanic/service technician who does keep the wheels turning, getting you from place to place, but it runs poorly and causes you great anxiety. Or, you can take it to someone who knows how to actually maintain and restore the vehicle.

Same with your body. Lots of doctors can keep you going, day in and day out, but you feel miserable; what the heck, you're saving money. Spend a bit more, possibly not as much as you think, and work with a doctor who actually knows how to help you overcome the physical challenges. A choice between surviving and living.

 

[Gman86]

Interesting about HCG making your total T actually go down. What brand were you using of HCG. That happened to me on 2 different brands. My total T actually went down compared to pre TRT. Pre TRT I was at 600, and on HCG mono with 2 different brands it put me at around 300 the first brand, and I think even lower the second brand.

However, I am very secondary, as a different brand (Pregnyl) brought my total T to around 1200. Each brand I was using the same dose, 2,000iu’s per week. Also on Clomid 50mg/ day my total T was 1500. So that’s how I know I’m secondary.

 

[Gman86]

1. You can still get medication from a pharmacy and try to have your insurance cover it. Defy just charges $25 to send the prescription to the pharmacy. But they send it with enough refills to last 3 months.

2. I’m not gonna lie, they do seem pretty busy. But they do still handle things fairly quickly considering how popular they are imo

3. In my experience the over the phone thing hasn’t hindered the treatment at all. Talking with Dr. Saya was 100x better and more productive than taking to the doctors at the other 2 clinics I tried in person before Defy. He’s extremely knowledgeable, understanding, straight to the point, and works with you in regards to what your goal is. I love the fact that it’s over the phone tbh. It gets the job done the same and you don’t even have to leave your house lol

4. Again in my experience after the initial consultation of $250, it’s very cheap. All my labs are covered by my insurance, so I just have Defy send me a lab requisition for the labs (no charge) and go to a Questdiagnostics location and get my labs done. Also if your insurance covers your meds, just have the prescriptions sent to your local pharmacy. I personally get my meds now from one of the compounding pharmacies they use (Empower pharmacy) and the meds are really cheap. Just on testosterone and HCG at the moment.