Who uses Gel? What does Defy Charge For Gel?

[new_man]

I was using gel for maybe 8 months and it was just bad. With 1 gel DHT was in the middle of the range but T level was really low. With 2 gel per day => DHT was 3-4 times as high and T and fT was through the roof. I couldn't manage it to have stable levels with gels. It depends on your body, about your body's mood, about the time, about how you move (it depends if you apply it in the morning or in the evening) and and... I'm glad I was able to switch to injections. With injections I know exactly how much T I injected into my body. Another reason is... with injection I am always able to hug girls whenever I want without worrying about them getting a beard, haha.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

It is important to understand the difference between compounded and brand name transdermal testosterone, in addition to the types of carriers used. Here is a thread that explains this: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Available&highlight=Transdermal+testosterone

Not all people respond to transdermal medications the same, there can be variation between people in how they absorb/metabolize. There is a percentage of people who are "non-responders", while others are high absorbers who respond to small amounts. Trasndermals tend to require more frequent follows ups to get dialed in and confirm response.

The average cost for compounded T cream runs $36-$70 per month depending on dose.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

$72 for up to 200mg (20%) per ML T gel/cream.
My suggestion is to request the 20% concentration so that less volume needs to be applied making the supply last longer (more cost effective)

 

[OMI100]

Yeppers Jasen That is what I do.....

 

[ERO]

Thanks. Not crazy about the thought of self injections then to think I would need to inject T twice per week then HCG a few times a week seems like a lot of needle sticking.

Those of us injecting are typically using insulin syringes instead of the huge 1" or 1.5" needles that a lot of docs give you. When using a tiny 27 or 29 gauge 1/2" insulin syringe, you often don't even feel it and there is going be a lot less potential for scaring.

 

[johnt]

$72 for up to 200mg (20%) per ML T gel/cream.
My suggestion is to request the 20% concentration so that less volume needs to be applied making the supply last longer (more cost effective)

@Jasen Bruce typically how long would that supply last (30, 60 days)

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

@Jasen Bruce typically how long would that supply last (30, 60 days)

Depends on the daily dosage prescribed (generally 100-200mg daily).

1ml of cream = 200mg of testosterone. Typically dispensed in increments of 30ml (though can be larger if ordered).

If dosage is 50mg daily = 1/4ml daily --> 30ml lasts 120 days.

If dosage is 100mg daily = 1/2ml --> 30ml lasts 60 days.

If dosage is 150mg daily = 3/4ml --> 30ml lasts 40 days.

If dosage is 200mg daily = 1ml --> 30ml lasts 30 days.

 

[johnt]

Depends on the daily dosage prescribed (generally 100-200mg daily).

1ml of cream = 200mg of testosterone. Typically dispensed in increments of 30ml (though can be larger if ordered).

If dosage is 50mg daily = 1/4ml daily --> 30ml lasts 120 days.

If dosage is 100mg daily = 1/2ml --> 30ml lasts 60 days.

If dosage is 150mg daily = 3/4ml --> 30ml lasts 40 days.

If dosage is 200mg daily = 1ml --> 30ml lasts 30 days.

@Dr Justin Saya, MD Thanks for the information. That looks like a reasonable option. My RX plan covers generic Androgel 50MG (1%) for $25/month. Looks like compound is more affordable if higher dosage is needed. Does Gels typically cause higher DHT and E compared to Injections?

 

[new_man]

@Dr Justin Saya, MD Thanks for the information. That looks like a reasonable option. My RX plan covers generic Androgel 50MG (1%) for $25/month. Looks like compound is more affordable if higher dosage is needed. Does Gels typically cause higher DHT and E compared to Injections?

Everybody is individuell. In my case => DHT was always too high. E2 was in range according to the bad normal E2 test always fine. Haven't done a sensitive E2 test. So I can't say it exactly. Funny thing is: The E2 (normal test) didn't change a lot when I changed the protocol from 1 gel to 2 gel.

I found out that applying it after a shower is more efficient than every thing else. There are some more rules to follow to have more success with the gel of course. I didn't follow them in the beginning.

By the way: What's the half life of Testogel or other gels?

 

[johnt]

What is the difference between cream vs. gel? I recall seeing a video by Dr. Crisler stating creams are for girls and gels are for men.

 

[Vince Carter]

The gel is alc based in the case of Androgel, which would not be kind if applied to the scrotum (for DHT therapy), the cream is not alc based and much more friendly to sensitive spots. Also having used both, the concentration of Test in a compounded cream like Dr Saya noted lets you put a smalled volume of cream in your chosen application site. having used Androgel before one pump would slather your nuts in goo, metaphorically speaking, whereas the 25mg or .5mL I put on my scrotum is about pea sized.

 

[johnt]

The gel is alc based in the case of Androgel, which would not be kind if applied to the scrotum (for DHT therapy), the cream is not alc based and much more friendly to sensitive spots. Also having used both, the concentration of Test in a compounded cream like Dr Saya noted lets you put a smalled volume of cream in your chosen application site. having used Androgel before one pump would slather your nuts in goo, metaphorically speaking, whereas the 25mg or .5mL I put on my scrotum is about pea sized.

@Vince Carter So if you had a choice between a compound gel or compound cream, you would go with the compound cream?

 

[Vince Carter]

A gel from "Big Pharma", i.e., Androgel or a compounded cream...i'd choose the cream hands down. Less to apply, and much cheaper.

 

[johnt]

I read that DHT levels get extremely high on transdermals, is that correct? I already some male pattern baldness and do not want to speed up hair loss, which I assume would more likely occur on a gel vs injections. Fair assumption?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I read that DHT levels get extremely high on transdermals, is that correct? I already some male pattern baldness and do not want to speed up hair loss, which I assume would more likely occur on a gel vs injections. Fair assumption?

Generally speaking, a transdermal will raise DHT more than an injectable for any "given testosterone level". This may be a good thing (if you have very low DHT) or a neutral/bad thing (if your DHT goes too high - possible acne, possible prostate issues, possible acceleration of male pattern baldness). It's all case-specific.

 

[Vince Carter]

I read that DHT levels get extremely high on transdermals, is that correct? I already some male pattern baldness and do not want to speed up hair loss, which I assume would more likely occur on a gel vs injections. Fair assumption?

5AR is concentrated in the skin so yes I would likewise presume a TD application to result in more DHT. While many men have absorption problems with TD applications and are not able to get a Total T in the upper ranges, many also report feeling better, in one way or another, likely because of the resultant DHT. Dr Saya stating that it's case specific refers to each individuals response.

 

[johnt]

Generally speaking, a transdermal will raise DHT more than an injectable for any "given testosterone level". This may be a good thing (if you have very low DHT) or a neutral/bad thing (if your DHT goes too high - possible acne, possible prostate issues, possible acceleration of male pattern baldness). It's all case-specific.

Thanks Dr. Saya. What would be considered a normal range for DHT?

 

[Zxy]

T Cream with USP DMSO works well for me.

I've had a lot of luck with T cream. I mix it with a USP DMSO. Before the DMSO I was at 6 clicks 125 MG/GM. After USP DMSO I use 2 clicks of the same cream. T levels are 900-1000. E controlled by 1/4 GM Anastrozol twice a week. I control DHT with Saw Palmetto (good for prostate too)

Before USP DMSO I had almost no absorption. With DMSO, wow. I apply first thing in the morning. I put on a shirt after 30 minutes. No transference to family after I realized I should wash my hands. Now I do not touch the T cream at all during application.

It's compounded by Womens International Pharmacy.

 

[crazycanuck]

Being new to the TRT world (29 days in) I will tell you that in that period of time I did transdermal patches for 8 days, androgel for 14 days as a stop gap before I could start injections as the patches, in the words of my urologist "are shit". During the two weeks with the androgel, I did not like the psychological barriers the possibility of transference caused. I was shying away from contact with my wife, (which is contrary to why we seek TRT in the first place) and also from playing my son.

Thankfully, my transdermal days are over and I am now subq test -c and Hcg. Only been a week but notice the difference physically and psychologically as I am back to not fearing contact with loved ones.

 

[dnfuss]

I've had a lot of luck with T cream. I mix it with a USP DMSO. Before the DMSO I was at 6 clicks 125 MG/GM. After USP DMSO I use 2 clicks of the same cream. T levels are 900-1000. E controlled by 1/4 GM Anastrozol twice a week. I control DHT with Saw Palmetto (good for prostate too)

Before USP DMSO I had almost no absorption. With DMSO, wow. I apply first thing in the morning. I put on a shirt after 30 minutes. No transference to family after I realized I should wash my hands. Now I do not touch the T cream at all during application.

It's compounded by Womens International Pharmacy.

Sorry for replying to an old thread, but didn't see these points addressed elsewhere.

1. What is the DMSO you use, liquid, cream, roll-on? And what concentration is it 99.9%, 70%, other?

2. What is the method of application you use? Apply T cream and DMSO together? Or do you apply T cream first and then wait before applying DMSO? If the latter, how long do you wait after application of T cream before applying DMSO?

3. You say you no longer touch the T cream at all during application. How, exactly, do you apply it? With some sort of implement?