Which Protocol?

[dnfuss]

I'm 59 yo and have been on TRT for almost 6 months. My current protocol is transdermal cream, 200mg/ml, 0.75 ml applied daily. Also on 10mcg/day synthetic T3. Had initial usual good period of high libido, morning erections, etc. Now nothing. No libido whatsoever, no wood, etc. Have attached labs done a month ago and just had a consult yesterday to review results, etc.

It was decided I would switch to injections. I could have chosen just test cyp, or test cyp plus hcg. I said I wanted to go with the latter and the protocol I was prescribed would be to inject E3.5D .32ml test cyp (200mg/ml) and 500iu hcg. Now I'm having second thoughts. Order for meds hasn't been placed yet so I could still change my mind.

I'm beginning to wonder if I start right off with test cyp injections and hcg and get good symptomatic results, will I be able to tell if the hcg is actually adding anything? I'm really eager to feel better, but I'd hate to be permanently on hcg if it is not adding anything (cost, twice the number of injections, etc.).

Should I call back and say I'd like to start with just test cyp, or is it not a bad idea to begin with test cyp and hcg? Will I be able to tell which med is doing what, so to speak?

 

[Vince]

My starting protocol was 70 mg of testosterone cypionate and 500 IU of HCG every three and a half days. For me it was awesome, I'm happy I started my HCG with my testosterone. From there I just continue to get more dialed by changing my doses and trying different types of injections.

After 3 years of trt, I never changed my dose of HCG. I really like the effect it gives me.

 

[Systemlord]

Whenever you start TRT you LH and FSH drop to near zero, the idea behind HCG is it mimics LH to keep the testes from shrinking and atrophying by backfilling the pathways which can help a man remain fertile. Not everyone feels well on HCG, but most do. I noticed no testing for SHBG, this is the test to run if one what's to find out which protocol is best and how many injections per week is optimal. I could only dream of my doctor prescribing HCG, she doesn't even know what it is.

 

[dnfuss]

After 3 years of trt, I never changed my dose of HCG. I really like the effect it gives me.

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. How would I know which effects are attributable to HCG and how would I be sure they aren't attributable to test cyp?

 

[Systemlord]

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. How would I know which effects are attributable to HCG and how would I be sure they aren't attributable to test cyp?

This is where having a good doctor comes into play, knowing what symptoms are the result of either. Knowing what I know now I would start TRT and add HCG later after I feel I've made mostly full recovery. This way you'll know if adding HCG did anything good.

 

[FeelingLost]

I'm 59 yo and have been on TRT for almost 6 months. My current protocol is transdermal cream, 200mg/ml, 0.75 ml applied daily. Also on 10mcg/day synthetic T3. Had initial usual good period of high libido, morning erections, etc. Now nothing. No libido whatsoever, no wood, etc. Have attached labs done a month ago and just had a consult yesterday to review results, etc.

It was decided I would switch to injections. I could have chosen just test cyp, or test cyp plus hcg. I said I wanted to go with the latter and the protocol I was prescribed would be to inject E3.5D .32ml test cyp (200mg/ml) and 500iu hcg. Now I'm having second thoughts. Order for meds hasn't been placed yet so I could still change my mind.

I'm beginning to wonder if I start right off with test cyp injections and hcg and get good symptomatic results, will I be able to tell if the hcg is actually adding anything? I'm really eager to feel better, but I'd hate to be permanently on hcg if it is not adding anything (cost, twice the number of injections, etc.).

Should I call back and say I'd like to start with just test cyp, or is it not a bad idea to begin with test cyp and hcg? Will I be able to tell which med is doing what, so to speak?

Hi dnfuss,
64yo with Defy. They just switched me from compounding cream to injections as well. I am already on HCG and love it.
When I was on a TRT program with my PCP I was doing Testim 1% gel mono. 4 months in I started getting sharp pains in my testis mostly in the evening while watching TV and they were pulling up against my body and felt hard and rinkled. When my E2 and prolactin went thru the roof I fired my PCP and went with DEFY. They put me on HCG and in two weeks my boys started to feel better. 6 weeks of use my flaccid penis is now fat as a beer can. I love it. T injections will not do this.

That said I have received what I will call weak HCG and within 7 days of use my beer can went away.
I called Defy, complained, and reordered from the first vendor and everything is now back the way it should be.

I brought this up in my phone consult as well and they increased my dose from 800iu/wk 400 M/T to 1200iu/wk 300iu M/W/F

hth

 

[Vince Carter]

I think 50/50 of guys here that say it's good for them or has no apparent benefit. I'm one that besides the outward physical appearance of your nuts not being shrunke, and as noted above SOME guys experience some pain when that shutdown and then atrophy occurs. 250iu E3.5D is a common start point though HCG dosing and frequency are all over the map. I would start there and see how you tolerate it. You can always stop for a month and gauge how you feel and restart and compare, you may like the feeling, or you may feel that it's not of any other benefit for you.

 

[Vince]

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. How would I know which effects are attributable to HCG and how would I be sure they aren't attributable to test cyp?

HCG has to do with keeping full working testicles. Which I do like having and I believe for me it makes sex more enjoyable.

 

[James]

You hear so much about HCG and testicular size. I've been taking cyptionate (without HCG), for almost 4 years and I've never experienced any noticable shrinkage. My balls are as full after nearly 4 years as they were when I started. I've been taking HCG for only a couple weeks and the only thing I notice is a sense of well being, I feel more calm, more relaxed...I just simply feel better. My balls have not grown (at least after 2 weeks). I didn't feel bad on TRT alone, in fact, I've slowly tweaked my protocol so many times over the years, that I feel pretty good on TRT alone. But so far, HCG has been a positive experience.

 

[Vince]

You hear so much about HCG and testicular size. I've been taking cyptionate (without HCG), for almost 4 years and I've never experienced any noticable shrinkage. My balls are as full after nearly 4 years as they were when I started. I've been taking HCG for only a couple weeks and the only thing I notice is a sense of well being, I feel more calm, more relaxed...I just simply feel better. My balls have not grown (at least after 2 weeks). I didn't feel bad on TRT alone, in fact, I've slowly tweaked my protocol so many times over the years, that I feel pretty good on TRT alone. But so far, HCG has been a positive experience.

James what's your protocol and what amount of HCG are you injecting. I know some men don't need HCG but I believe most do. I think stating with HCG helps most men get dialed in faster.

 

[James]

Vince - I'm lucky in the sense that I seem to feel pretty good and draw good numbers off what most would consider to be a small dose. I had some rather significant health issues in the past (before TRT), and recall the doc looking at my labs and commenting that 'whatever meds' I take, I'd likely need a small amount to get the desired effect. Both by subjective feeling and objective labs, it appears to be the case. My current protocol is 50mg of Cypionate, only 125iu HCG, and 1/8th mg AI...all twice weekly.

 

[ratbag]

I'm 59 yo and have been on TRT for almost 6 months. My current protocol is transdermal cream, 200mg/ml, 0.75 ml applied daily. Also on 10mcg/day synthetic T3. Had initial usual good period of high libido, morning erections, etc. Now nothing. No libido whatsoever, no wood, etc. Have attached labs done a month ago and just had a consult yesterday to review results, etc.

It was decided I would switch to injections. I could have chosen just test cyp, or test cyp plus hcg. I said I wanted to go with the latter and the protocol I was prescribed would be to inject E3.5D .32ml test cyp (200mg/ml) and 500iu hcg. Now I'm having second thoughts. Order for meds hasn't been placed yet so I could still change my mind.

I'm beginning to wonder if I start right off with test cyp injections and hcg and get good symptomatic results, will I be able to tell if the hcg is actually adding anything? I'm really eager to feel better, but I'd hate to be permanently on hcg if it is not adding anything (cost, twice the number of injections, etc.).

Should I call back and say I'd like to start with just test cyp, or is it not a bad idea to begin with test cyp and hcg? Will I be able to tell which med is doing what, so to speak?

dnfuss,

Nelson has a video here that shows you how to put testosterone and HCG together into one syringe. I tried and it works great. I take 2 shots a week and doing it this way means that I don't have to take 4 shots per week. Something everyone could get used to.

 

[madman]

I'm 59 yo and have been on TRT for almost 6 months. My current protocol is transdermal cream, 200mg/ml, 0.75 ml applied daily. Also on 10mcg/day synthetic T3. Had initial usual good period of high libido, morning erections, etc. Now nothing. No libido whatsoever, no wood, etc. Have attached labs done a month ago and just had a consult yesterday to review results, etc.

It was decided I would switch to injections. I could have chosen just test cyp, or test cyp plus hcg. I said I wanted to go with the latter and the protocol I was prescribed would be to inject E3.5D .32ml test cyp (200mg/ml) and 500iu hcg. Now I'm having second thoughts. Order for meds hasn't been placed yet so I could still change my mind.

I'm beginning to wonder if I start right off with test cyp injections and hcg and get good symptomatic results, will I be able to tell if the hcg is actually adding anything? I'm really eager to feel better, but I'd hate to be permanently on hcg if it is not adding anything (cost, twice the number of injections, etc.).

Should I call back and say I'd like to start with just test cyp, or is it not a bad idea to begin with test cyp and hcg? Will I be able to tell which med is doing what, so to speak?

To truly understand how testosterone is going to affect ones mental/physical well being and overall blood work when starting a trt protocol it would be best to use testosterone without hcg for 6 weeks and than have blood work done and also gauge how you feel after 6 weeks even than I would wait a little longer with using hcg as it takes time for the body to adjust especially seeing as when starting trt one will usually experience the honeymoon period. Hcg is not as must unless one wants try to maintain fertility or prevent testicular shrinkage and even than not everyone experiences shrinkage. Some rave that they feel better using hcg with their protocol where as others feel they experience no benefit and maybe even end up feeling worse. I am approaching my 1 year anniversary on trt and my protocol is 75mg testosterone every 3.5 days strictly sub-q (injecting in abdominal fat) no a.i and never used hcg. I have experienced no noticeable shrinkage of my testis and my loads are still full/orgasms are intense, have a strong libido/erections and overall feel awesome. My total is usually around 1100-1200 ng/dl with a free t double the upper end of the range and my e2 slightly high but only using the standard assay as the sensitive assay is not available in Canada. Overall my energy/mood/libido is great and I have increased all my lifts in the gym and gained 20lbs of muscle (183-203lbs) and leaned out slightly all while eating 4000cal/day. I would say my experience so far has been amazing without the use of hcg or an aromatose inhibitor added to my protocol.

 

[Vince]

dnfuss,

Nelson has a video here that shows you how to put testosterone and HCG together into one syringe. I tried and it works great. I take 2 shots a week and doing it this way means that I don't have to take 4 shots per week. Something everyone could get used to.

 

[Forty2]

My starting protocol was 70 mg of testosterone cypionate and 500 IU of HCG every three and a half days. For me it was awesome, I'm happy I started my HCG with my testosterone. From there I just continue to get more dialed by changing my doses and trying different types of injections.

After 3 years of trt, I never changed my dose of HCG. I really like the effect it gives me.

Vince, both your testosterone and hCG doses are larger than what most guys are taking. Are you injecting both subQ or IM? Are you using an AI too?

 

[Vince]

Vince, both your testosterone and hCG doses are larger than what most guys are taking. Are you injecting both subQ or IM? Are you using an AI too?

I've never used an AI and been on TRT for 3 years now. I like shallow IM that I've learned from Nelson videos. I always used easy touch syringes, 27g 1/2" or 29g 1/2" I'm presently injecting testosterone daily.