When will blood levels stabilize on prop EOD?

[WayneP]

I want to do a blood test but unsure as to when blood levels will stabilize after starting 40mg test prop EOD.

Does anyone know?

 

[Cataceous]

Propionate has a nominal half-life of 0.8 days. This means things will stabilize within a week. But "stabilize" in this case means only that the profile of serum testosterone in each injection interval is the same. The profile itself varies dramatically, going from a very low pre-injection trough to quite a high level in the few hours after each injection. It's not a protocol I'd recommend, as I found that even daily propionate can cause excessive swings in serum testosterone. Suppose you hit a peak of 1,500 ng/dL three hours after an injection. Then your pre-injection trough 45 hours later is likely to be under 300 ng/dL. This is certainly not optimal.

Note also that if you have a longer testosterone ester still in your system then you must wait for it to clear before your results will reflect only the propionate.

 

[Weasel]

I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.

 

[Willyt]

I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.

@Weasel - Did you notice less water retention on Prop versus Cypionate?

 

[Willyt]

Propionate has a nominal half-life of 0.8 days. This means things will stabilize within a week. But "stabilize" in this case means only that the profile of serum testosterone in each injection interval is the same. The profile itself varies dramatically, going from a very low pre-injection trough to quite a high level in the few hours after each injection. It's not a protocol I'd recommend, as I found that even daily propionate can cause excessive swings in serum testosterone. Suppose you hit a peak of 1,500 ng/dL three hours after an injection. Then your pre-injection trough 45 hours later is likely to be under 300 ng/dL. This is certainly not optimal.

@Cataceous - what would be the peak-to-trough swing that you would see on daily protocol for Prop versus EOD?

 

[WayneP]

@Cataceous yes on paper it sounds like a bad protocol but i've seen many anecdotes of people they felt the best on prop eod. thx for the info

I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.

what was your dose on prop eod please

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous - what would be the peak-to-trough swing that you would see on daily protocol for Prop versus EOD?

Here's some of my data for daily propionate:

For EOD protocols I only used enanthate or cypionate. You can see I would have very low troughs with EOD propionate.

 

[Weasel]

@Weasel - Did you notice less water retention on Prop versus Cypionate?

Subjective but yes, less water retention was noticeable in my eyes.

 

[Weasel]

@Cataceous yes on paper it sounds like a bad protocol but i've seen many anecdotes of people they felt the best on prop eod. thx for the info



what was your dose on prop eod please

25MG EOD

 

[Willyt]

@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?

@WayneP - You got me thinking about Prop EOD versus daily.

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?
...

I saw no evidence of endogenous production of testosterone; it's still too much exogenous testosterone for too long. Recently at exceedingly low doses (2.8 mg TE, 2.1 mg TP daily) I also saw no evidence of endogenous production, and this was with GnRH too.

Regarding the table with my data, only the first row might be considered physiological; a 25% variation about the mean is typical for young men. The other data points are averaging about double this. Subjectively the protocols did not feel as good as the stable levels with EOD enanthate. But I now find a TP/TE blend tuned for ~23% variation about the mean is superior to either pure TE or pure TP.

Of course this could be purely an individual thing. But to me it appears that the better I'm able to mimic normal physiology, the better I do.

 

[Willyt]

I saw no evidence of endogenous production of testosterone; it's still too much exogenous testosterone for too long. Recently at exceedingly low doses (2.8 mg TE, 2.1 mg TP daily) I also saw no evidence of endogenous production, and this was with GnRH too.

Regarding the table with my data, only the first row might be considered physiological; a 25% variation about the mean is typical for young men. The other data points are averaging about double this. Subjectively the protocols did not feel as good as the stable levels with EOD enanthate. But I now find a TP/TE blend tuned for ~23% variation about the mean is superior to either pure TE or pure TP.

Of course this could be purely an individual thing. But to me it appears that the better I'm able to mimic normal physiology, the better I do.

Too bad the current Empower Cyp/TP blend has 4:1 ratio. Doesn’t seem like it would make much of a difference.

 

[madman]

@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?

@WayneP - You got me thinking about Prop EOD versus daily.

Water retention when I inject @ evening and less when @ morning, ideas why ? - Excel Male TRT Forum

I feel the best emotionally and get the best sleep as close to being natty when I inject ED around 12,5mg Test Prop in the evening prior to bed. Been experimenting for quite some time and indeed there is a very big difference. Wake up full of energy and feel calm during the day. Also this...

www.excelmale.com

post#2

 

[madman]

@Weasel - Did you notice less water retention on Prop versus Cypionate?

You should be much more concerned with what FT level you achieve on such a protocol.

 

[hardrlz]

Sorry for the side question but how long does it take you to notice the positive effects on libido/energy/strength on daily propionate , do you immediately feel something when you hit the peak or did it take time ?

 

[WayneP]

25MG EOD

can you also tell me your shbg and what your TT was at on this protocol please