When are my peak and trough e2 levels with this protocol?

[Someguy]

I'm taking 56mg test cyp every OTHER day, 125iu HCG every day, and 0.05mg Arimidex every day. I'm trying to plan some blood draws. With this protocol, when would I expect my peak and trough estradiol levels to fall?

 

[Fireproof]

Conventional advice is to get your blood drawn at the trough. Which would be immediately before your injection and before you take the Arimidex that day.

 

[ERO]

By and large with EOD injections, you have very, very little difference between peak and trough - that is the point of injecting that often. The only way to know for sure would be to wait at least 4 weeks for your body to adjust and then get blood work done on both a peak day and a trough day. I would not expect to see much difference.

Also, 0.5 Arimedex every day is a HUGE overdose for 99% of guys on TRT. Do you have blood work or a history of extreme E2 to justify that dosing?

 

[Someguy]

I'm not taking 0.5mg of Arimidex daily, I'm taking 0.05mg of Arimidex daily - a total of 0.35mg per week. Ive been on this protocol for 4 weeks now so my levels should be stable.

I'm having intermittent issues that I suspect are estradiol related. I'd like to get labs done to show peak and trough ESTRADIOL (not testosterone) levels.

I'm injecting testosterone every other day and taking Arimidex every day. I'd like to know when in this 2-day cycle my peak and trough e2 levels would be expected so I can get labs drawn at those times.

Any thoughts?

 

[Vince Carter]

on an EOD schedule and you wanted a peak and trough I would think the only way to see those would be blood draws on consecutive days, like 24 and then 48hrs post injection (cyp) continuing your HCG daily and the AI daily. The only variable is the days between Cyp so it makes sense to me...24 and then 48hrs post Cyp.

 

[Someguy]

on an EOD schedule and you wanted a peak and trough I would think the only way to see those would be blood draws on consecutive days, like 24 and then 48hrs post injection (cyp) continuing your HCG daily and the AI daily. The only variable is the days between Cyp so it makes sense to me...24 and then 48hrs post Cyp.

That would give me my peak and trough T levels, but I'm looking for peak and trough estradiol levels and I think they'd be at different times. My thinking is that:

Peak estradiol levels would be 24 hours after test injection (highest serum T level), just before taking the daily Arimidex (lowest serum Arimidex level.)

Trough estradiol levels would be... maybe 8-10 hours after an Arimidex dose (at or slightly past peak Arimidex level to give estradiol some time to drop and not be replenished due to aromatase inhibition?)

I"d love any input on this as I'd like to get it right. My estradiol levels have been wildly different from one day to the next on a past protocol of test cyp every other day, arimidex every other day (alternating days). I switched to every day arimidex dosing to try to reduce the swing and get more consistent levels every day. From my symptoms, things are still very different from one day to the next.

 

[CoastWatcher]

That would give me my peak and trough T levels, but I'm looking for peak and trough estradiol levels and I think they'd be at different times. My thinking is that:

Peak estradiol levels would be 24 hours after test injection (highest serum T level), just before taking the daily Arimidex (lowest serum Arimidex level.)

Trough estradiol levels would be... maybe 8-10 hours after an Arimidex dose (at or slightly past peak Arimidex level to give estradiol some time to drop and not be replenished due to aromatase inhibition?)

I"d love any input on this as I'd like to get it right. My estradiol levels have been wildly different from one day to the next on a past protocol of test cyp every other day, arimidex every other day (alternating days). I switched to every day arimidex dosing to try to reduce the swing and get more consistent levels every day. From my symptoms, things are still very different from one day to the next.

When my estradiol levels started climbing, I also deal with low SHBG, my doctor proposed - and I gladly agreed - to have blood drawn every other day for a week. I got an excellent overview of just how my low SHBG was undermining my efforts at a balanced protocol and also came to understand what my estradiol was doing. Extreme as that sounded, it worked. It brought me to a protocol where I inject testosterone on a daily basis, but I avoid an AI, have E2 under control, and feel very good. Something to think about if you're looking to get a grip on your numbers.

 

[Vince Carter]

That would give me my peak and trough T levels, but I'm looking for peak and trough estradiol levels and I think they'd be at different times. My thinking is that:

Peak estradiol levels would be 24 hours after test injection (highest serum T level), just before taking the daily Arimidex (lowest serum Arimidex level.)

Trough estradiol levels would be... maybe 8-10 hours after an Arimidex dose (at or slightly past peak Arimidex level to give estradiol some time to drop and not be replenished due to aromatase inhibition?)

I"d love any input on this as I'd like to get it right. My estradiol levels have been wildly different from one day to the next on a past protocol of test cyp every other day, arimidex every other day (alternating days). I switched to every day arimidex dosing to try to reduce the swing and get more consistent levels every day. From my symptoms, things are still very different from one day to the next.

Disagree, but the best method is as Coasty suggested, start pulling bloods every other day for a week or two. The only variable even by your own statements is the Cyp EOD. If you maintain the dosing, the E should have a peak and a trough, just like Cyp EOD.

 

[Someguy]

I'll definitely get two consecutive days (Cyp injection day and non Cyp injection day). What I'm wondering about is the time of day to catch the estradiol trough level. I definitely "feel" that my estradiol is higher in the morning before I take my daily arimidex pill, then it "feels" lower 6-8 hours after taking the pill. This is judged by nipple pointyness and sensitivity, mood, ED, etc.

 

[Vince]

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?5932-Got-my-estradiol-results-back-now-what

 

[Someguy]

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?5932-Got-my-estradiol-results-back-now-what

Interesting read. Thanks! It's encouraging to see that you're doing well with no AI. I seem to be very sensitive to arimidex and get large swings from one day to the next, even with EOD Arimidex dosing. I'm trying every day now. I haven't had new labs yet, but it's been 4 weeks and I still have different symptoms at different days and times. I'm seriously considering ditching the AI as well, even if it means lowering my T dosage.

I use 80mg of testosterone cypionate and 500iu of hcg every 3 1/2 days - no AI


testosterone, serum 1059ng/dl 348-1197
free testosterone direct 28.9 pg/mL 6.6-18.1
dhea-sulate 214.9 ug/dL 48.9-344.2
estradiol, seneitive 27.3 pg/mL 8.0-35.0

Vince, are the numbers above a peak or a trough reading? Are you symptom free every day of the week with these dosages and blood levels?

 

[Fireproof]

I'll definitely get two consecutive days (Cyp injection day and non Cyp injection day). What I'm wondering about is the time of day to catch the estradiol trough level. I definitely "feel" that my estradiol is higher in the morning before I take my daily arimidex pill, then it "feels" lower 6-8 hours after taking the pill. This is judged by nipple pointyness and sensitivity, mood, ED, etc.

This is an interesting thing to try to predict.

Just thinking out loud... if you assume that the testosterone serum levels peak and wane similar to the graph below, then test level will peak about 24 hours after injection. I don't know the time delay of aromatization, but let's assume it aromatizes quickly...then e2 levels should be at a peak 24 hours after your Test Cyp injection and before you take your arimidex.

For the e2 trough - I've been told that half life of Anastrozole is 12 hours. (I expect arimidex to be similar...but maybe not). Anyway - assuming a similar curve, peak level of your AI in your system is probably a few hours after taking it... So it would seem that your e2 trough would likely be on your non-injection day, when your AI is peaking in your system, which would be a 3-4 hours after taking it.

Just trying to guess.

HOWEVER - the 2nd graph below indicates that with daily Anastrozole dosing, plasma levels tend to even out after a few days showing minimum peaks and valleys - so I'm not sure your AI dose timing really matters that much.


Test Cyp Levels after Single Injection....


Plasma levels of Anastrozole

Taken from here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/406198_2

 

[Someguy]

Thanks, Fireproof. This is great info.