Wanting to change from compounded T-cream to injections

[windyps42]

Hi there, first post,

I have been on compounded T-cream for about 8 or 9 years and I'm 60 yo. My wife just spiked a 400% increase in her T level on her annual blood test, assuming maybe transference. We thought we were always careful, but after a lot of reading, I see that it isn't that uncommon. I am presently using 200mg/gm cream and about .8 grams per day with good levels of T. So it's working well for me, just not her.

Is it possible to extrapolate from my gel usage and estimate of what I would need it inject sub-q and drop the T-cream?

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[ratbag]

Welcome to Excelmale

I don't think you can extrapolate anything from cream. Everyone responds differently. This is a completely new protocol and as such it'll take time and you will have to make adjustments. The best you can do is get labs every 6 weeks and update your protocol.

400% huh.. is she showing any symptoms of high test? like a moustache, or more hair, a deeper voice etc. Can you share with us what her labs came in at?

 

[windyps42]

Ok, thanks. I kind of figured that. Just mainly looking for a starting point... My problem is leaving US for NZ for the next year and a half in six weeks. Maybe I'll just wait till I get there to address it.

Her historical (2009-2015) levels T-serum were 22-45, 58 in 2016 and 2 weeks ago her blood work came back at 197 a week later did a retest to verify and it came back yesterday at 173.
Her historical T-free was .3-1.4 and been slowly rising to 4.0 in 2016. Then these last 2 tests were 5.7 and on retest 5.4.

Yes, symptoms hair growth, voice hoarse, uncharacteristically aggressive.

 

[Vince]

I would just start with 50 mg of testosterone cypionate twice a week and would consider using HCG along with it. Keep it nice and simple and have labs in 6 - 12 weeks

 

[windyps42]

Also, she is 51 yo and we've been dealing with perimenopause the last few years. Her latest labs show her E2 just above the post menopausal level, so she's about there they say.

 

[windyps42]

Ok, thanks for that Vince. I am new to all this. Is the standard the 200mg/ml vials I see on some the internet sites? All I'm looking for is the the actual T delivered in the dose, so a quarter ml would be the starting point? Is there any reason, other than the obvious volume of injection, to use one strength vs another?

 

[Vince]

The instructions with the testosterone should tell you how much do you use. I inject with Easy Touch insulin syringes 29g 1/2 inch syringe.
My favorite injection place is the ventrogluteal. It took me a little practice but it was well worth it.

https://www.excelmale.com/community...-no-aspiration-needed-avoids-all-nerves.7671/

 

[ratbag]

Ok, thanks. I kind of figured that. Just mainly looking for a starting point... My problem is leaving US for NZ for the next year and a half in six weeks. Maybe I'll just wait till I get there to address it.

Her historical (2009-2015) levels T-serum were 22-45, 58 in 2016 and 2 weeks ago her blood work came back at 197 a week later did a retest to verify and it came back yesterday at 173.
Her historical T-free was .3-1.4 and been slowly rising to 4.0 in 2016. Then these last 2 tests were 5.7 and on retest 5.4.

Yes, symptoms hair growth, voice hoarse, uncharacteristically aggressive.

What were her ranges for T serum and Free T? Testosterone isn't making her aggressive it's the T converting to estrogen that's causing the problem. Everytime a women gets put on T or E they are also put on Progesterone as that is what keeps the estrogen from building up too much. When women get angry it nearly always because of estrogen dominance.

 

[windyps42]

Her ranges (Labcorp) are 3-41ng/Dl serum and 0-4.2 Free. She also is on 200mg Progesterone/day orally, but her levels declined there also. E2 way down and Prg down somewhat in spite of her Dr. doubling her dose a couple months ago.

 

[windyps42]

Does anyone know how long it would take T to clear from her system totally if it was from my cream? Found a bunch of stuff online indicating it would take 5 days from last application for a male to return to background. Also found a study where a small child was accidentally virilized and she returned to half way to baseline in 6 weeks and baseline in 12 weeks. We waited a week on the retest because I'd read the 5 days for males, but maybe it would take a female much longer to return to baseline and a 2 yo female child even longer?

 

[ratbag]

It should clear within a few weeks I would think. What form of progesterone is she taking? Tablets or cream?

 

[windyps42]

It should clear within a few weeks I would think. What form of progesterone is she taking? Tablets or cream?

Compounded 200mg capsules. From NZ.

 

[MarkM]

Is she taking it at bedtime?

 

[windyps42]

Is she taking it at bedtime?

Yes

 

[ratbag]

200mg of progesterone is huge. And you say she is still down. I'm suspecting she has an absorption problem. I;m wondering if progesterone cream would be better. If she has gut absorption problems cream would bypass that. Also if she has absorption issues she probably has GERD symptoms, low stomach acid, and or oral thrush and indigestion problems. If so there is a simple fix to all that. https://scdlifestyle.com/2012/06/hypochlorhydria-3-common-signs-of-low-stomach-acid/

 

[txmx]

We had the same issue with my post-menopausal wife having a high Total T reading and me being on T cream. I thought I was pretty careful regarding transference. I was extra careful for the next 7 weeks and then she tested high again for Total T. So if it is transference from me, it must stay in her system a very long time. We have tested her for every other T-producing possibility: inflammation, high insulin response, ovarian ultrasound, adrenal glands CT scan looking for hormone producing tumors. Found nothing. So it remains a mystery for us. I suppose we will do another blood test for Total T after several more weeks. Her SHBG is high, so her Free T is actually in range and she has no virilizing effects.

 

[windyps42]

We had the same issue with my post-menopausal wife having a high Total T reading and me being on T cream. I thought I was pretty careful regarding transference. I was extra careful for the next 7 weeks and then she tested high again for Total T. So if it is transference from me, it must stay in her system a very long time. We have tested her for every other T-producing possibility: inflammation, high insulin response, ovarian ultrasound, adrenal glands CT scan looking for hormone producing tumors. Found nothing. So it remains a mystery for us. I suppose we will do another blood test for Total T after several more weeks. Her SHBG is high, so her Free T is actually in range and she has no virilizing effects.

So she is still elevated after 7+ weeks? Wow. My wife's dropped 20+ points in a week and we basically have her in a bubble. One of the people who do our blood work said they have seen several women picking up T while while working out at the gym from the equipment. So, she is working out at home for now. I've moved into the other bathroom. She has also scheduled an ultrasound in a couple of weeks. We will test again prior to that and cancel if back to normal. How high was your wife's numbers?

 

[windyps42]

200mg of progesterone is huge. And you say she is still down. I'm suspecting she has an absorption problem. I;m wondering if progesterone cream would be better. If she has gut absorption problems cream would bypass that. Also if she has absorption issues she probably has GERD symptoms, low stomach acid, and or oral thrush and indigestion problems. If so there is a simple fix to all that. https://scdlifestyle.com/2012/06/hypochlorhydria-3-common-signs-of-low-stomach-acid/

Yes, she was previously on a cream and they wanted it higher and went to the oral, not high enough, doubled the dosage, and it went down further. Of course at the same time her estrogen went down substantially and her T shot way up. So right now, not sure what any of the numbers mean. Her doc said when one changes they all change. No happens in isolation. Based on her E2 reading she is right at the edge where they say she has arrived in menopause. Don't really think she is having any GERD symptoms, but I'll ask her. Thanks

 

[txmx]

So she is still elevated after 7+ weeks? Wow. My wife's dropped 20+ points in a week and we basically have her in a bubble. One of the people who do our blood work said they have seen several women picking up T while while working out at the gym from the equipment. So, she is working out at home for now. I've moved into the other bathroom. She has also scheduled an ultrasound in a couple of weeks. We will test again prior to that and cancel if back to normal. How high was your wife's numbers?

On 4/21/18 her Total T was 63. I did not think transference of my T cream was an issue. Tried to make extra sure no transference over the next 7 weeks. On 6/13/18 her Total T was 79. Her doctor said she would expect my wife's post-menopausal T level to be about 10. Her doctor said she would be getting more concerned if T levels got over 100 (due to T-producing tumor possibility). Her doctor said PCOS was not an issue. Did thorough ultrasound of ovaries. Cancerous adrenal tumors are rare (1-2 per million people) but we did CT scan to investigate. You can also check DHEA-S levels (along with fasting insulin and HS-CRP) as a problem indicator. My wife's levels were actually on the low side. Her doctor also suggested seeing an endocrinologist for a second opinion. Maybe thyroid issues could cause excess T production somehow? Not sure on that one.

 

[windyps42]

On 4/21/18 her Total T was 63. I did not think transference of my T cream was an issue. Tried to make extra sure no transference over the next 7 weeks. On 6/13/18 her Total T was 79. Her doctor said she would expect my wife's post-menopausal T level to be about 10. Her doctor said she would be getting more concerned if T levels got over 100 (due to T-producing tumor possibility). Her doctor said PCOS was not an issue. Did thorough ultrasound of ovaries. Cancerous adrenal tumors are rare (1-2 per million people) but we did CT scan to investigate. You can also check DHEA-S levels (along with fasting insulin and HS-CRP) as a problem indicator. My wife's levels were actually on the low side. Her doctor also suggested seeing an endocrinologist for a second opinion. Maybe thyroid issues could cause excess T production somehow? Not sure on that one.

Well, my wife's DHEA, fasting insulin and CRP were all within her range and all toward the low end of the range. She is going to retest in 2 weeks and see if it is still going down. Obviously, her T levels above 150 is what has us worried, for all the reasons you mentioned. Dr. also said she doesn't think it would PCOS making a first appearance at 51 yrs old.