Very high TT on low dose TRT

[Bbarth]

Hi,


I am wondering if anyone else has had this or if it's even possible. Won't go into the history of my trt as it will take forever. I was doing it for 5 years and after endless tweaking of doses and regimes got fed up with the roller coaster and thought I'd give up for a bit ( initially wasn't too bad but recently seemed to take a dive )




Anyway I wanted to do a quick trial to see if finally I could get it right. So I did 30mg 2x week to start low. After five weeks wasn't really feeling much different so thought I'd try 12mg ed subq and and 100iu HCG . Started to feel like it was really working so thought I'd get a test to see if it was going in the right direction


So got back:


TT 134nmol/L ( range 6.8 - 25.7) (which is 3864ng/dL!)


Free T (calculated) 4.7 nmol/l (range 0.16 - .47)


Estrogen 28.7 pmol/L (range 41 - 159)


Shbg 32nmol/l (range 20- 76)




Since I stopped trt E has always been low but not sure how much weight to give that. But is it even possible to have such a crazy high TT on 60mg pw? Also E still so low with massive TT?


What is going on?


You might think that is a mistake by the lab. However it's not the first-time. Just before I stopped trt on 100mg per week, my TT came back at > 540 nmol/l . I thought that was obviously nonsense but then after 2 months off trt it came back as still 100 nmol/l which I also thought couldn't be possible


During the time I was off trt I got sensible values for tt thought it slowly declined. This latest one was a different Lab (Forth, I'm in the UK)


So one or two weird results I could ignore but that's three now. Has anyone had this?. What could be causing this? Can these values be real?


Be interested to here from any guys in the UK who have used some of the labs



Thanks


Bill

 

[Systemlord]

So I did 30mg 2x week to start low.

TT 134nmol/L ( range 6.8 - 25.7) (which is 3864ng/dL!)

Estrogen 28.7 pmol/L (range 41 - 159)

There's a big disconnect here, your Total T and Free T are astronomically high and your estrogen is below range.

It's a labs error or you're taking biotin supplements which can give falsely high lab values.

 

[tareload]

Test your TT with LCMS assay and you will see you are getting interference on the assay above. Details on the assay?

More info:

Interferences in Immunoassay - PMC

Substances that alter the measurable concentration of the analyte or alter antibody binding can potentially result in immunoassay interference. Interfering, endogenous substances that are natural, polyreactive antibodies or autoantibodies ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hormone Immunoassay Interference: A 2021 Update - PMC

Immunoassays are powerful qualitative and quantitative analytical techniques. Since the first description of an immunoassay method in 1959, advances have been made in assay designs and analytical characteristics, opening the door for their ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Total testosterone MS and Nandrolone

Is Total T MS panel specific enough to recognize a testosterone molecule from a nandrolone molecule? I know the standard non sensitive Total T panel can’t differentiate test and nandrolone and will add them together, and the Total T LC/MS/MS panel is specific enough to know the difference and...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Bbarth]

Can't see details on their assays. The only supplement I'm taking is turmeric ( and also allopurinol 300mg). However before I was taking the testosterone cyp all the results came back in sensible ranges so nothing was interfering then. (last TT before trt was 9nmol/l).

 

[Systemlord]

Can't see details on their assays. The only supplement I'm taking is turmeric ( and also allopurinol 300mg). However before I was taking the testosterone cyp all the results came back in sensible ranges so nothing was interfering then. (last TT before trt was 9nmol/l).

Then it's a lab error. I seriously doubt you have access to the accurate testing methods.

 

[Bbarth]

Why do you seriously doubt that? Lol Are the accurate methods top secret then only available to a
select few? We're not talking cutting edge science here.

I don't even need super accuracy I'd take plus or minus a few nmol/l

That's three in a row now and only happens when I've been on trt. How do they know only to make an error when I'm on trt and not when I'm not? If the labs were that bad many other people must be having the same problem. Anyone else?
I have queried the results but I'm guessing they'll just say I must be taking massive doses of testosterone

It's impossible to come up with a plausible theory which is why I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar conundrum

 

[Systemlord]

Why do you seriously doubt that?

This isn't my first rodeo, I'm not new to all this. There are studies showing dosages and levels achieve on TRT, so unless you're a genetic freak, its a lab error.

Samples of blood can get contaminated and human error is still in play.

Also your E2 would be way higher with these Total T and Free T levels.

Lol Are the accurate methods top secret then only available to a
select few?

Other countries lag behind the US on just about everything. TSH reference ranges change in the US and it can take 10 to 20 years for other countries to catch on.

Some European countries have TSH ranges that go all the way up to 10.

Jatenzo, an oral T capsules is only available in the US and under a different name in Canada and other countries will follow.

 

[Bbarth]

Yes treatment regimens are probably lagging behind outside the USA but I'm sure testosterone testing is similar the world over.

Lab error I always assumed, so I'll put the first one down to contamination, the second to them mixing it up with someone else who is on a massive dose of testosterone, the third to someone typing the decimal point in the wrong place. I'm redoing another test along with a FBC to be on the safe side.

If it comes back the same then I guess maybe I am a genetic freak. Or maybe something else I haven't thought of.

 

[tareload]

I'm redoing another test

Run LC/MS-MS for TT.

Example:

Total testosterone quantitative measurement in serum by LC-MS/MS - PMC

Reliable measurement of total testosterone is essential for the diagnosis, treatment and prevention of a number of hormone-related diseases affecting adults and children. A mass spectrometric method for testosterone determination in human serum was ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

...
Some methods described in literature use derivatization procedures to enable analysis by GC-MS or to achieve higher sensitivity of LC-MS measurements [47–49]. Our method does not require derivatization, which minimizes complexity and facilitates automation. Furthermore, other methods employ ethers, such as methyl tertiary-butyl ether [24], diethyl ether [50], and diethyl ether/ethyl acetate mixtures [51] for the liquid–liquid extraction. However, these solvents are difficult to handle with automatic pipetting system and require special safety considerations. The solvents used in our method showed compatibility with automated liquid handlers and require fewer safety considerations than ethers [52–54].

The present method proofed a consistent result over a 2-year period at all concentration levels, as well as experimental variations with very minimal matrix effect and no or negligible difference for testosterone in neat and matrix. Measurement values obtained with this method are in high agreement with established reference methods [30] and meets performance criteria for accuracy used by the CDC Hormone Standardization Program [35]. This described method provides a consistently high accurate and sensitive LC-MS/MS assay for testosterone measurements in serum at all concentration levels typically observed in men as well as in women and children.

 

[magic99]

Hi,


I am wondering if anyone else has had this or if it's even possible. Won't go into the history of my trt as it will take forever. I was doing it for 5 years and after endless tweaking of doses and regimes got fed up with the roller coaster and thought I'd give up for a bit ( initially wasn't too bad but recently seemed to take a dive )




Anyway I wanted to do a quick trial to see if finally I could get it right. So I did 30mg 2x week to start low. After five weeks wasn't really feeling much different so thought I'd try 12mg ed subq and and 100iu HCG . Started to feel like it was really working so thought I'd get a test to see if it was going in the right direction


So got back:


TT 134nmol/L ( range 6.8 - 25.7) (which is 3864ng/dL!)


Free T (calculated) 4.7 nmol/l (range 0.16 - .47)


Estrogen 28.7 pmol/L (range 41 - 159)


Shbg 32nmol/l (range 20- 76)




Since I stopped trt E has always been low but not sure how much weight to give that. But is it even possible to have such a crazy high TT on 60mg pw? Also E still so low with massive TT?


What is going on?


You might think that is a mistake by the lab. However it's not the first-time. Just before I stopped trt on 100mg per week, my TT came back at > 540 nmol/l . I thought that was obviously nonsense but then after 2 months off trt it came back as still 100 nmol/l which I also thought couldn't be possible


During the time I was off trt I got sensible values for tt thought it slowly declined. This latest one was a different Lab (Forth, I'm in the UK)


So one or two weird results I could ignore but that's three now. Has anyone had this?. What could be causing this? Can these values be real?


Be interested to here from any guys in the UK who have used some of the labs



Thanks


Bill

Hey Bill - I just had a similar TT score (120 nmol/L) from 60mg 2x per week - which seems completely implausible. I'm also in the UK and I'm wondering if it's the same lab? Perhaps they are having issues with their accuracy. I'm using Optimale but I'm not sure which lab they use - this is also my second result like this. I talk to the Dr on Thursday so hope to get some clarity.

 

[bennettjc]

Hi,


I am wondering if anyone else has had this or if it's even possible. Won't go into the history of my trt as it will take forever. I was doing it for 5 years and after endless tweaking of doses and regimes got fed up with the roller coaster and thought I'd give up for a bit ( initially wasn't too bad but recently seemed to take a dive )




Anyway I wanted to do a quick trial to see if finally I could get it right. So I did 30mg 2x week to start low. After five weeks wasn't really feeling much different so thought I'd try 12mg ed subq and and 100iu HCG . Started to feel like it was really working so thought I'd get a test to see if it was going in the right direction


So got back:


TT 134nmol/L ( range 6.8 - 25.7) (which is 3864ng/dL!)


Free T (calculated) 4.7 nmol/l (range 0.16 - .47)


Estrogen 28.7 pmol/L (range 41 - 159)


Shbg 32nmol/l (range 20- 76)




Since I stopped trt E has always been low but not sure how much weight to give that. But is it even possible to have such a crazy high TT on 60mg pw? Also E still so low with massive TT?


What is going on?


You might think that is a mistake by the lab. However it's not the first-time. Just before I stopped trt on 100mg per week, my TT came back at > 540 nmol/l . I thought that was obviously nonsense but then after 2 months off trt it came back as still 100 nmol/l which I also thought couldn't be possible


During the time I was off trt I got sensible values for tt thought it slowly declined. This latest one was a different Lab (Forth, I'm in the UK)


So one or two weird results I could ignore but that's three now. Has anyone had this?. What could be causing this? Can these values be real?


Be interested to here from any guys in the UK who have used some of the labs



Thanks


Bill

So... this total testosterone level of yours. When was it tested relative to one of your twice weekly dosings? Right before one of your injections? At a trough?

 

[Bbarth]

I'd switched to daily 12 mg by then, so a few hours after that so that would be my peak... which I wanted to make sure wasn't going over range...but a daily dose might peak at the top of the range but even so nowhere near that...

 

[Bbarth]

Hi magic,

I checked back with the lab, they are standing by it, they said the first time they ran the test it came back as >54 so they diluted it and reran the test to get back 134 so whatever it was it wasn't a simple admin error. They have offered to redo the test so I'll be interested to hear what that is.

I used Forth this time but I have similar crazy results from mymedichecks as well. I suspect they all use the same labs which they say are UKAS accredited and ISO compliant. I have had normal results everytime I have tested not on TRT (5 times) so I don't understand what's going on but I'm glad it's not just me.

Let me know what your doctor says

Bill

 

[Gladiator]

This isn't my first rodeo, I'm not new to all this. There are studies showing dosages and levels achieve on TRT, so unless you're a genetic freak, its a lab error.

Samples of blood can get contaminated and human error is still in play.

Also your E2 would be way higher with these Total T and Free T levels.


Other countries lag behind the US on just about everything. TSH reference ranges change in the US and it can take 10 to 20 years for other countries to catch on.

Some European countries have TSH ranges that go all the way up to 10.

Jatenzo, an oral T capsules is only available in the US and under a different name in Canada and other countries will follow.

And here you are in America still talking in feet and inches.
Australian have to measure our cocks in inches because if we told you we had a 20cm cock you would think your 6inches was small.


NO COUNTRY is 20 years behind America except maybe I can’t think of a name.