Using nandrolone with Testosterone for less side effects

[broker]

I read something rather interesting where the report implied that using small amounts of nandrolone in conjunction with T can minimize side effects such as hair loss and prostate enlargement. Nandrolone converts to DHN, not DHT. DHN has a very weak affinity to the AR and is much less androgenic than DHT. In fact, its suggested that nandrolone can actually shrink the prostate.
So, using small amounts can minimize the unwanted side effects from T. Further, because testosterone would be used, libido will be unaffected which is cause for concern when using nandrole by itself. Sounds great but a few questions?????
Does DHN bind to DHT receptors resulting in less dht activity? Im confused.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness

 

[Sean Mosher]

"Specifically, we have reviewed the pharmacology of nandrolone and detailed a potential role for nandrolone in joint healing and muscle growth. Finally, a consideration was given to the potential adverse effects of nandrolone on ED. Further research in human subjects is required."

We hear of its use at low doses for joint healing, but it would require a decent dose to get muscle growth and then there are some other concerns for long-term use at the higher doses.
Nelson has posted a ton of information on Deca in this forum.

Search results for query: Deca Durabolin

 

[broker]

We wouldnt necessarily be using nandrolone so much for muscle growth as we would be using it to minimize side effects of testosterone opposed to using finasteride. Lets say 25-50 mgs per week of nandrolone with 100 mgs per week of T.
Would nandrolone usage minimize DHT side effects but yet the low dosage still enable testosterone to work its magic? Lets put it this way, i still would think T would give all the libido benefits without deca exerting a negative libido effect due to the very low dosage. However, will unwanted dht side effects be minimized by deca at that doasge and how does deca actually do it when T still converts to dht ?

 

[Sean Mosher]

They both compete for androgen receptors but man I couldn't tell you as far as what the article was speculating about.
It provided no conclusions and I've never even heard of this being proposed honestly.
The thing is......if you're genetically pre-disposed to male pattern baldness then T can speed up that process.
But if you're not then you should be fine.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

The problem with nandrolone is that it's insanely damaging to your arteries. According to a study, it hardens your arteries 10x more than testosterone at an equivalent dose. Hypothetically, that means that even if you were to only use 50 mg, you'd get the arterial damage of 500mg of testosterone. I believe that is the main reason Nelson stopped using it. It's also mildly neurotoxic.

 

[broker]

After further research, nandrolone is not a viable long term option. Far too many cardio vascular related issues.

 

[madman]

I read something rather interesting where the report implied that using small amounts of nandrolone in conjunction with T can minimize side effects such as hair loss and prostate enlargement. Nandrolone converts to DHN, not DHT. DHN has a very weak affinity to the AR and is much less androgenic than DHT. In fact, its suggested that nandrolone can actually shrink the prostate.
So, using small amounts can minimize the unwanted side effects from T. Further, because testosterone would be used, libido will be unaffected which is cause for concern when using nandrole by itself. Sounds great but a few questions?????
Does DHN bind to DHT receptors resulting in less dht activity? Im confused.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness

Nandrolone is considered one of the mildest anabolics regarding side effects related to hair loss/acne in genetically prone individuals due to its conversion to DHN (dihydronandrolone) as oppose to the more potent DHT (dihydrotestosterone) and to add to its milder nature it is said to aromatize much less compared to the the strong aromatizable androgen testosterone.

What is meant by using small amounts minimizing unwanted side effects from T comes from steroid cycling usage as the main benefit of adding the nandrolone would be to increase the overall anabolic effect (regarding muscle growth) when combined with testosterone which would allow one to run lower doses of testosterone (resulting in less DHT/estradiol conversion) not the nandrolone itself having some magical effect on minimizing the side effect of testosterone.

As an example when one uses/abuses testosterone/AAS if an individual is genetically prone to male pattern baldness or acne and is worried about experiencing those cosmetic side effects than instead of one injecting a higher dose testosterone only cycle one could run a lower dose of testosterone when nandrolone is added to the cycle in order to possibly minimize sides and still have an improved overall anabolic response regarding muscle growth.

As far as when one is using trt doses of testosterone 100-150 mg/week or slightly more..... conversion to DHT/estradiol is a given and higher T doses will result in higher levels of its metabolites but again it comes down to the genetic sensitivity of the individual as to whether they experience cosmetic sides such as male pattern baldness/acne.

If one tends to experience these sides than lowering testosterone dose may help but again one can only lower dose so much before the benefits of trt are lost and even if one needed to try the lowest effective dose of T adding in nandrolone is not going to have any magical effect regarding lowering/decreasing the sides.

Understand that a majority of the studies regarding nandrolone use are done using animals and as far as human studies they are mainly related to HIV/cancer.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

After further research, nandrolone is not a viable long term option. Far too many cardio vascular related issues.

Exactly. On paper it seems like a fantastic compound, and for many decades its deleterious effects on the cardiovascular system were not as well known so it's no surprise many used it with impunity. Unfortunately, it's just not worth the damage.

 

[Dogfather]

What would replace nandrolone? If a little help is needed to maintain muscle or prevent muscle loss.

 

[Airborne Warrior]

Testosterone. Or more testosterone.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

What would replace nandrolone? If a little help is needed to maintain muscle or prevent muscle loss.

It's hard to beat nandrolone for that purpose. Testosterone is a very effective muscle builder, and in healthy individuals it is probably equally effective at putting on muscle (more or less) as nandrolone, but it doesn't hold a candle to nandrolone when it comes to reversing cachexia in patients with muscle-wasting diseases. That is why so much research is being dumped into SARMs, but the technology is far from perfect. Right now, there isn't a completely risk-free way of getting additional anabolism. The best alternatives to nandrolone (SARMs, possibly low dose Anavar, etc) all pose some health risks, primarily in that they significantly hurt your cholesterol.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Another option is MK-677, which is virtually risk-free (as far as we know), but the effects are much weaker than that of drugs that agonize the androgen receptor.

 

[wernerbrewer]

"Combining Testosterone with Nandrolone to
Reduce Side Effects

We also suggest that physicians consider using a mixture of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in equal lower doses to give some more sensitive hypogonadal men the full benefit of the androgenic properties of testosterone, but reduce the potential for its dose-related side effects. Testosterone's androgenic characteristics impart more energy, physical strength, libido, and anti-depressive effect than nandrolone, but there is more potential for hair loss, acne, irritability, and prostate growth with testosterone, especially with increasing doses.

Nandrolone appears to add relatively more anabolic activity with a reduced potential for side effects. We see physicians prescribes 50 to 100 mg of testosterone with 50 to 100 mg of nandrolone per week to men to obtain better overall lean tissue retention, energy, and quality-of-life than can be obtained by using testosterone or nandrolone alone. There is also less potential for hair loss and other side effects with this combination.

We sometimes hear men tell us how testosterone alone makes them feel less than optimal until nandrolone is added. We have seen low dose combinations of testosterone and nandrolone used by a significant number of men to produce optimal quality of life, and suggest that physicians consider this non-standard use. "

Excerpt from:

Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

Post# 5

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

"Combining Testosterone with Nandrolone to
Reduce Side Effects

We also suggest that physicians consider using a mixture of nandrolone decanoate and testosterone in equal lower doses to give some more sensitive hypogonadal men the full benefit of the androgenic properties of testosterone, but reduce the potential for its dose-related side effects. Testosterone's androgenic characteristics impart more energy, physical strength, libido, and anti-depressive effect than nandrolone, but there is more potential for hair loss, acne, irritability, and prostate growth with testosterone, especially with increasing doses.

Nandrolone appears to add relatively more anabolic activity with a reduced potential for side effects. We see physicians prescribes 50 to 100 mg of testosterone with 50 to 100 mg of nandrolone per week to men to obtain better overall lean tissue retention, energy, and quality-of-life than can be obtained by using testosterone or nandrolone alone. There is also less potential for hair loss and other side effects with this combination.

We sometimes hear men tell us how testosterone alone makes them feel less than optimal until nandrolone is added. We have seen low dose combinations of testosterone and nandrolone used by a significant number of men to produce optimal quality of life, and suggest that physicians consider this non-standard use. "

Excerpt from:

Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

Post# 5

The issue with nandrolone is that it wreaks havoc on the arteries. If it weren't for that, I'd be an advocate for its use (although there is some data suggesting it is neurotoxic). For patients with legitimate cachexia, it's one thing to improve their quality of life at the expense of long-term risk, but the prospect of heart disease is just too dangerous for otherwise healthy men. The data I've seen suggests that even a low dose (50-100mg) could pose a serious risk to cardiovascular health.

 

[Airborne Warrior]

Yep, I've just thrown 20ml of it away because of the cardiovascular risks. Just not worth it at 50 years of age. I feel good enough on test alone.

 

[Will Brink]

I read something rather interesting where the report implied that using small amounts of nandrolone in conjunction with T can minimize side effects such as hair loss and prostate enlargement. Nandrolone converts to DHN, not DHT. DHN has a very weak affinity to the AR and is much less androgenic than DHT. In fact, its suggested that nandrolone can actually shrink the prostate.
So, using small amounts can minimize the unwanted side effects from T. Further, because testosterone would be used, libido will be unaffected which is cause for concern when using nandrole by itself. Sounds great but a few questions?????
Does DHN bind to DHT receptors resulting in less dht activity? Im confused.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness

"on paper" it sounds promising, and some docs do use T and nandrolone, but normally for a specific reason, such as joint pain. There's many Qs that arrise also, and unknown effects of combining them in humans long term, and the authors suggestion combining them may lead to improvements in metabolic syndrome, reduced risk of CVD, etc a WAG at best. It sounds worth persuing for sure, but the lack of human data and unknown what the right dose would be combing them, and other factors = I'd proceed with caution and not jump into that one based on that review paper that was mostly conjecture, but well done conjecture. Perhaps 50mg weekly of Nandrolone added to TRT dose, or even a drop on the TRT to match the added Nandrolone, might be the way to proceed if the goal is indeed to reduce potential negatives of T and increase the benefits. I'd be most interested to see what impact it had on lipids. If the goal is just to get bigger and stronger, which is no longer legit TRT, then sure, T and Nandrolone always made a good combo.

 

[Will Brink]

The problem with nandrolone is that it's insanely damaging to your arteries. According to a study, it hardens your arteries 10x more than testosterone at an equivalent dose. Hypothetically, that means that even if you were to only use 50 mg, you'd get the arterial damage of 500mg of testosterone. I believe that is the main reason Nelson stopped using it. It's also mildly neurotoxic.

Source?

 

[Jinzang]

Here's a bunch of animal studies showing that nandrolone inhibits vasodilation, courtesy of Google Scholar.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here's a bunch of animal studies showing that nandrolone inhibits vasodilation, courtesy of Google Scholar.

I do not have time right now, but try to locate the equivalent human dose for an 80 Kg man in those animal studies.

 

[Will Brink]

Here's a bunch of animal studies showing that nandrolone inhibits vasodilation, courtesy of Google Scholar.

I wouldn't dismiss those per se, and, per comments above would be wary of the impact on lipids, but I'd also want to see human studies, which compared nansdrolone to T in equal doses before taking a definitive position on it. My personal recs: unless there's a specific condition the addition of nandrolone may assist with, stick to T, until such studies exist. I thought this one was interesting:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043661804000969