Unresolved Low T and Fertility Problems

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McGillickM4

New Member
Hello all,

I've been poking around ExcelMale for the last several months and have been nothing but impressed with the discussions and topics site wide. Now I am in need of some assistance, hopefully I'm posting this in the correct spot, feel free to move the thread if I'm mistaken.

I lost a testicle to cancer back in March of 2015. I'm an active 24 year old. At the 6 month follow-up appointment with my urologist I confessed I've been feeling fatigued, moody, with low quality workouts, and not sleeping well. Consequently he tested my Testosterone, free and total and they both came back very low: 5.4 free and 298 total (attached). He also tested my fertility and it wasn't great, motility was a 5 (anything below 50 is considered abnormal) and the count was only a few million. My wife was crushed since we've been trying for a child for months. He prescribed me testosterone cypionate injections; 2x a month at 150mg per injection, with the warning that it could reduce my fertility even more. I decided to split the dose in half and inject 4x per month; once per week. With several months of this schedule under my belt, I noticed weight gain of around 10lbs (all water weight).

In October of 2015 my urologist again tested my Testosterone and it came back at super-physiological levels: total was ~1200. Even though it was much higher I still felt awful. All of the same problems were present, except for my workouts...they were pretty awesome. He also thought to test my fertility levels and they came back at 0, everything was 0. No sperm, no concentration, no motility. Nothing. He then sent me out to an endocrinologist who I met with the following month, November of 2015.

The endo reviewed my case and asked what my goals were. I plain and simple told him I wanted to be fertile and have the chance for children and also to feel good, sleep well, have productive workouts, and not be so moody and crabby. My wife couldn't handle me the way I was any longer. He seemed like a very competent guy and together we decided to get off of injections immediately and go on Clomid. I lost the 10lbs in a matter of a week. Now I know for some guys Clomid works and for others it's a massive waste of time. But for the sake of my fertility and possibility of upping my T levels I told him I'd try it; 25mg tab once a day for 30 days. At the end of the 30 days he would test my levels and see what we're dealing with.

I got those results back just a few days ago, my free came back at a low-normal number, 42, and my total was a measly 257, lower than I was before starting any TRT! I'm sure you can imagine my frustration. It makes sense though because the last week or so before my blood draw I was always tired, annoyed, couldn't focus, sex drive in the tank, crabby, etc. Just hating life. My wife is most concerned with my sex drive, I can get an erection but I doesn't last and most times I end up not being able to climax, I just don't feel anything. So embarrassing.

Now my endo wants to run another month at 25mg a day dose of Clomid and do another draw at the end of this month to see where my levels are and then based on those, develop a new plan or continue on the same path if my numbers improve. Currently I'm feeling quite depressed. Not motivated to do anything. It's one of the worst times for me to fee like this because I'm an Army Officer in flight school right now spending long days flying and studying. My performance is suffering, big time.

I'm planning on calling my endo's office next week and communicating my concerns and continuing problems. I'm not sure what they will be willing to do. I'm at a loss. Being motivated for 2016 is impossible feeling like this. Any suggestions of questions to ask or protocols to consider would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-mitch
 

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Gene Devine

Super Moderator
Can you post your most recent blood work here in this thread complete with lab ranges.

Did you have your estrogen tested using the sensitive asssy?
 

McGillickM4

New Member
Unfortunately I only have what my endo's nurse told me most recently: Free was a "low-normal" number she said, 42, and my total was a 257. When I call them on Monday I'll be sure to ask for a complete copy of my results. I haven't had my estrogen tested in any capacity since my initial blood work back in July of 2015, another big miss on my part, I know...
 

maxadvance

Active Member
The clomid was used as a post therapy attempt to get your body to produce natural T again. Clearly a mistake with your low original baseline. Your body seems to respond well to TRT too. The obvious therapy seems to point toward maintaining your T therapy, twice a week not once a week, and to add HCG to get your sperm count up. Just as Nelson stated.

Many of us use Defy Med(link to the right). They can consult, diagnose and prescribe over the phone and email. Totally legit, and deal with issues like yours all the time, and you being out of state is not a problem either.
 

Gene Devine

Super Moderator
I have a feeling that his Endo is not very well trained in hormone replacement therapy in men.

As noted, he should have just stayed in Testosterone and include HCG to keep his testicle functioning and maintain fertility.

We need to see all other labs but the fact that Estrogen hasn't been tested is a huge red flag for me.
 

McGillickM4

New Member
That protocol seems very promising. Honestly Nelson, in the back of my mind since beginning any variation of TRT I've wanted to pursue an HCG + TRT combination. Just a gut feeling that I couldn't seem to shake. I know you're not a huge advocate of an AI, but after my first stab at injections over the summer I know my estrogen was out of control, although none of the medical professionals I dealt with did an estrogen test...the 10b weight gain in just a few weeks was the primary give away...and then the loss of all that weight after stopping injections. So possibly the HCG + TRT + AI mix.

I'm going to bring these studies up with my endo next week and absolutely pursue that combo like you mentioned.
 

McGillickM4

New Member
More great articles. Obviously I'm way out of my league trying to connect the dots here. I'm just not getting clear communication with the medical professionals I'm working with so I'm left to my own devices trying to make sense of it all. My endo seemed open to trying different things so I'm hoping he'll consider what we've discussed here. If not, then Defy will be hearing from me.
 

maxadvance

Active Member
That protocol seems very promising. Honestly Nelson, in the back of my mind since beginning any variation of TRT I've wanted to pursue an HCG + TRT combination. Just a gut feeling that I couldn't seem to shake. I know you're not a huge advocate of an AI, but after my first stab at injections over the summer I know my estrogen was out of control, although none of the medical professionals I dealt with did an estrogen test...the 10b weight gain in just a few weeks was the primary give away...and then the loss of all that weight after stopping injections. So possibly the HCG + TRT + AI mix.

I'm going to bring these studies up with my endo next week and absolutely pursue that combo like you mentioned.

The labs you provided from July, looks like the DC is a relative?, show an E2 reading of 36 with total T of 298. That's a pretty high ratio. That 10lb weight gain is likely more from the Test Cypionate, pretty well known to make you puffy in the beginning.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
More great articles. Obviously I'm way out of my league trying to connect the dots here. I'm just not getting clear communication with the medical professionals I'm working with so I'm left to my own devices trying to make sense of it all. My endo seemed open to trying different things so I'm hoping he'll consider what we've discussed here. If not, then Defy will be hearing from me.

Many, perhaps most, of us have had to work harder than we expected to find a doctor who understands contemporary TRT protocols. However, there are physicians who know what they are doing. If you can't find one locally, then, yes, Defy would be an excellent choice.
 

BBaller

New Member
The labs you provided from July, looks like the DC is a relative?, show an E2 reading of 36 with total T of 298. That's a pretty high ratio. That 10lb weight gain is likely more from the Test Cypionate, pretty well known to make you puffy in the beginning.

Hi McGillickM4- welcome.

I recently started TRT and have experienced a bit of weight gain, which I wrote about. I thought it might be estradiol related, but I decided to order bloodwork from DiscountedLabs at 6 weeks (before the 12 week mark recommended by Dr Saya at Defy), and found out that I may be actually a bit *low* on estradiol now according to the general T:E ratio guidelines, not high.

So I think it's important to not presume causality here and to test if there are concerns. If I had interpreted my weight gain as an estrogen issue and started up an AI right away, I might have dug myself in a hole. As Nelson mentioned, there are several reasons one might experience weight gain upon starting a protocol, and that may or may not be estradiol-related, so it's a good idea to gather information before adding a new variable.


Good luck!
 
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