TRT side effect help

[Charlesfitstein]

Again, I understand. And I am not faulting you, just being honest about trying not to comment inappropriately based on incomplete information

You are lucky to have that relationship with your family doctor. My PCP also orders labs as needed, covered by insurance based on my hormone care by another doctor.

Also when I get back into town I will post my last labs. I don’t have the ones before that but I literally had nothing out of range until the test shots began

 

[EMC13]

Hate to hear that for you, the urologist I saw today to believed it’s the test but not the test itself but the oil used in it being cotton seed oil.

How long did your rash last once you stopped the test?

I will try to update as much as possible on here since you’re in the same boat.

Thank you. I’m very sorry you’re going through this as well. It is very frustrating. My rash started awhile ago at night as a blotchy red rash like hives. It then changed no idea why, maybe covid…? When it changed it now stays all the time and it is not itchy. It lasts at least a couple weeks after I stop treatment. I also have had diarrhea and night sweats both intermittently since this has all been happening. Definitely keep me posted on your progress etc. Good luck with everything.

 

[Blackhawk]

I am in the same boat and the I individual that said you aren’t allergic to test is incorrect. I get the same thing with cremes, cypionate or enthanate. It took awile to come on but once it starts it doesn’t go away or takes a very long time. I Never take an AI and I have tried every dose possible. Like you I also respond well to HCG. I’m taking that now to try to get my levels back at least somewhat. If anyone has any advice I’m all ears.

Regarding being wrong about testosterone allergy, first before anything else, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.

I am referring to the testosterone molecule itself, not the exogenous testosterone products we inject, rub on our skin, put up our nose, bury under the skin, or take orally. Any of them can indeed cause sensitivity reactions causing dermatitis (rash)

What are you referring to?

 

[EMC13]

Regarding being wrong about testosterone allergy, first before anything else, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.

I am referring to the testosterone molecule itself, not the exogenous testosterone products we inject, rub on our skin, put up our nose, bury under the skin, or take orally. Any of them can indeed cause sensitivity reactions causing dermatitis (rash)

What are you referring to?

I was referring to the fact that I have tried many different types of testosterone for example, cypionate, enthanate and creme, which are all compounded differently. It isn’t what it’s compounded, or suspended in, for some people, it is the actual testosterone causing the issue. It’s actually fairly common, more so at higher doses, but there are a fair amount of people that have this response to lower trt doses. Thank you.

 

[Blackhawk]

I was referring to the fact that I have tried many different types of testosterone for example, cypionate, enthanate and creme, which are all compounded differently. It isn’t what it’s compounded, or suspended in, for some people, it is the actual testosterone causing the issue. It’s actually fairly common, more so at higher doses, but there are a fair amount of people that have this response to lower trt doses. Thank you.

OK, here we go.

I don't refute your personal experience and I understand how you came by this belief based to your own N=1 anecdotal experience, and similar stories from others. I won't go into the argument over why this does not constitute proof unless you really want. I will stick with the technical side of it.

I still think you are conflating "the testosterone", testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate and testosterone cream as being the same thing. They are not.

And I will say I have been wrong about things before, so if you want to debate, I am all ears. I will eat my humble pie if you show me technically how and why I am wrong.

Are you not referring to taking testosterone via a product? You said you have taken testosterone enanthate, cypionate and topical (cream). You have not taken pure testosterone, correct? It is not the same as the products themselves, but it comes from those products

T enanthate and cypionate are esterified forms of testosterone, but those bound forms are not used where the rubber hits the road at your cell receptors. They are useless without the testosterone molecule being freed by esterase enzyme.

These esterified forms are put into a carrier oil for injection, and benzyl alcohol added which is an antimicrobial that prevents the growth of microbes that could cause infection. Reactions to these substances are known causes of allergic type reactions.

And creams,, the most common side effects are skin reactions: Side Effects of Topical Testosterone Cream

"The most common side effects of topical testosterone are skin reactions. Because you apply topical testosterone directly to your skin, you may develop a reaction at the application site. Symptoms can include:
burning
blistering
itching
soreness
swelling
redness
rash
dry skin
acne"

You have not ruled out that you are reacting to carrier oils, benzyl alcohol, and the cream base and additives in the topicals.

I guarantee it is not the testosterone molecule causing an allergy. And here is why: If you were allergic to that molecule you would always be having allergic reactions. A bazzillion of those are in your blood all the time... unless your blood tests show ZERO. So, when you are not taking testosterone products, is your blood level of testosterone actually ZERO?

Let's look at how many of those molecules that you say you are allergic to are there in your blood if you are NOT taking exogenous testosterone. I don't know how hypogonadal you are but let's say your Total Testosterone is 250ng/dl. I'll spare you the calculations, but for an average sized male with 5 liters of blood this would be 31,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of testosterone in your blood stream. I may be off by one zero from transcribing the scientific notation, but I did actually run the numbers.

If you are allergic, why would you not have any reaction with 31 sextillion testosterone molecules in your blood?

The pure testosterone molecule that you benefit from with TRT is the same molecule... identical to the molecule that your own testicles produce. There is no difference. The differences are in the products themselves. The difference is that the way we take testosterone is not as the pure substance, that was explained above.

I actually hope that this information might help you find a solution like finding you are allergic to cottonseed oil, but actually can take grapeseed oil, and/or that there is an ingredient in the cream you used that caused a reaction, but a different cream or gel is fine.

Best to you!

EDIT: ADDENDUM: Another thought, entirely speculative. Testosterone prioprionate, a short ester can cause local inflammation and pain as the esters are being cleaved of rapidly. This is not an allergic response but is inflammatory. So my question is, when enanthate and cypionate esters are cleaved off, can that reaction is some people cause immune system response. And then, the esters have to go somewhere or be broken down into smaller parts to either combine and be used by the body or eliminated. Could these byproducts cause immune response in some people? Seems unikey as they are just carbon chains, not any kind of actual protein.

 

[Charlesfitstein]

Sorry for delay I will respond later today been really busy but my doctor said he will draw blood an check anything I want that lab corp will process.

Could someone list everything I should do for hormones I want everything checked but don’t what to ask for

 

[Systemlord]

Could someone list everything I should do for hormones I want everything checked but don’t what to ask for

• Total T
• Free T equilibrium dialysis method, NOT Direct Free T method
• Estrogen sensitive or non sensitive is usually fine unless C-Reactive Protein is elevated
• DHT, converted from testosterone
• Mineral panel, ferritin, potassium, vitamin D, magnesium, etc.
• Lipids
• CBC
• Prolactin

 

[Charlesfitstein]

I think I have finally compiled a list of labs I’ll add on here incase someone sees something I missed.

I went back to the dermatologist appointment and they didn’t help much. Couldn’t give any insight on how to handle the rash, why it happen. They injected me with a large does of steroids and told me to continue using a rx cream. It has slightly improved so fingers crossed.

I am finally starting to feel better almost 2 weeks since last dose of test and just on hCG now.

 

[Simbarn]

I think I have finally compiled a list of labs I’ll add on here incase someone sees something I missed.

I went back to the dermatologist appointment and they didn’t help much. Couldn’t give any insight on how to handle the rash, why it happen. They injected me with a large does of steroids and told me to continue using a rx cream. It has slightly improved so fingers crossed.

I am finally starting to feel better almost 2 weeks since last dose of test and just on hCG now.

Your estrogen levels must be recovering and you are no longer on excessive doses of testosterone. hCG will not be generating anywhere near the level of T you were experiencing on that amount of testosterone you were injecting previously.
As the others have mentioned Arimidex is a very powerful drug.
It never ceases to amaze me how many doctors do not try lowering the dose of T first before using these awful aromatase inhibitors.