TRT faster recovery?

[themud]

Anyone know at what blood level we see faster recovery from workouts?

800? 1000?

I've been any where from 600-1300 and yet to see fast recovery from workouts.

My workout A:
Mon: DL 2 sets 3-5 repish
Chins 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

Wed workout B: OHP
3x 8ish
Row 3x8ish
Dip 3x8ish

Fri A with squat:
Squat 3x8ish
Chin 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

I do them RPT (reverse pyramid training). First set after warm up is heaviest, then drop 10% with 3 minutes rest. All sets are to failure.

Pulling muscles always sore. I do a tabata on airdyne bike after the workouts and walk 1 hour daily. Sometimes I will run a little on my walks.

I do accessories when I have time like calves, and, back, biceps, triceps, but usually not.

 

[madman]

Anyone know at what blood level we see faster recovery from workouts?

800? 1000?

I've been any where from 600-1300 and yet to see fast recovery from workouts.

My workout A:
Mon: DL 2 sets 3-5 repish
Chins 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

Wed workout B: OHP
3x 8ish
Row 3x8ish
Dip 3x8ish

Fri A with squat:
Squat 3x8ish
Chin 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

I do them RPT (reverse pyramid training). First set after warm up is heaviest, then drop 10% with 3 minutes rest. All sets are to failure.

Pulling muscles always sore. I do a tabata on airdyne bike after the workouts and walk 1 hour daily. Sometimes I will run a little on my walks.

I do accessories when I have time like calves, and, back, biceps, triceps, but usually not.

What is it you are expecting we are on trt here not steroids.

Sure having healthy testosterone levels will improve body composition (muscle gain/fat loss) and enhance recovery from workouts but it will be minor when using trt doses compared to using steroid doses (testosterone/AAS).

If anything diet/sleep and not over training will have the biggest impact on recovery from workouts whether training natural or on trt.

Do understand that one can still easily over train on trt as again we are not using steroids.

To truly experience significant gains in muscle/strength and acceleration in recovery steroid doses 300-600 mg/week would be needed and effects would be greater on the higher end of dose used along with a proper diet/training protocol and to top it off ones genetics will have the final say!

Even 250 mg/week would be considered a low dose test cycle.

Most on trt are using 100-150 mg/week and sure some are using 200 mg/week but it is not a common dose for trt and if one wants to make the argument that many are using 200mg/week.....I would say it is because this is what the T-mills are pushing when in fact many would not need 200 mg/week to achieve a TT that would result in healthy FT levels.


Supra-physiological testosterone levels as in 2000-4000 ng/dL is where beneficial effects would truly start to shine!

 

[fifty]

Stop training 3 sets to failure. Problem solved. No fancy training...reverse pyramid what the heck is that. Just train.

 

[Tednacious73]

Only 9 sets per workout is very little. Most studies show that for hypertrophy (muscle gain), 10-20 working sets per week per MUSCLE GROUP if the most effective. Also, going to failure on every set is a bad idea, most studies show that total volume (amount of sets per week) is much more important than intensity (going to failure). Stop about 2 reps short of failure on your working sets and add more of them.

This is a great program for beginner/intermediate lifters: Total Body Training | T Nation

edit: this is another good full body program you can do at home:

 

[James]

I've found with TRT (100 mg weekly), I don't need as many sets to achieve the goal, when compared to not taking T. But can't comment on the level to optimize recovery or the benefits of RPT. Seems I would do the opposite of RPT.

 

[HoustonTX]

What is it you are expecting we are on trt here not steroids.

Sure having healthy testosterone levels will improve body composition (muscle gain/fat loss) and enhance recovery from workouts but it will be minor when using trt doses compared to using steroid doses (testosterone/AAS).

If anything diet/sleep and not over training will have the biggest impact on recovery from workouts whether training natural or on trt.

Do understand that one can still easily over train on trt as again we are not using steroids.

To truly experience significant gains in muscle/strength and acceleration in recovery steroid doses 300-600 mg/week would be needed and effects would be greater on the higher end of dose used along with a proper diet/training protocol and to top it off ones genetics will have the final say!

Even 250 mg/week would be considered a low dose test cycle.

Most on trt are using 100-150 mg/week and sure some are using 200 mg/week but it is not a common dose for trt and if one wants to make the argument that many are using 200mg/week.....I would say it is because this is what the T-mills are pushing when in fact many would not need 200 mg/week to achieve a TT that would result in healthy FT levels.


Supra-physiological testosterone levels as in 2000-4000 ng/dL is where beneficial effects would truly start to shine!

Many legit clinics prescribe 200 mg a week. It all depends where you should be and where you do best at

 

[James]

I'd think most guys (far more than 50%) would be a disaster at 200 mg week.

 

[ERO]

I agree that TRT is a replacement dose and not a muscle building dose for most guys, yet I see the logic in the original question. If, for example, a guy has Total T of 250, goes on TRT and is now at, let's say 900 he probably wonders why he can't recovery from training any better than before?

 

[madman]

Many legit clinics prescribe 200 mg a week. It all depends where you should be and where you do best at

They sure do.....but again it would be overkill for many.

 

[James]

Physically they should be in good shape, assuming diet/exercise/sleep

I agree that TRT is a replacement dose and not a muscle building dose for most guys, yet I see the logic in the original question. If, for example, a guy has Total T of 250, goes on TRT and is now at, let's say 900 he probably wonders why he can't recovery from training any better than before?

How's it going ERO - We all know we're different, but for me the cut off for minimum dose, with pretty cool gains in both strength and physique, would be 120 mg per week. I was on 160 mg per week and made great gains. But at that dose, still a replacement dose, it had a negative impact on other things I had to pull back. Did well on 100 mg a week and I'm about to see how I feel on 90 mg per week. I feel much better on a lower dose, but look better on a higher dose. I think a lot of guys can say the same thing.

 

[fifty]

What negative impacts do you have that you keep lowering dose?

 

[Cips1975]

Anyone know at what blood level we see faster recovery from workouts?

800? 1000?

I've been any where from 600-1300 and yet to see fast recovery from workouts.

My workout A:
Mon: DL 2 sets 3-5 repish
Chins 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

Wed workout B: OHP
3x 8ish
Row 3x8ish
Dip 3x8ish

Fri A with squat:
Squat 3x8ish
Chin 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

I do them RPT (reverse pyramid training). First set after warm up is heaviest, then drop 10% with 3 minutes rest. All sets are to failure.

Pulling muscles always sore. I do a tabata on airdyne bike after the workouts and walk 1 hour daily. Sometimes I will run a little on my walks.

I do accessories when I have time like calves, and, back, biceps, triceps, but usually not.

Been on TRT now since Feb 2018. When people ask what I’ve noticed the most since I’ve been on it has been 1) Much improved recovery. I literally do not get DOMS anymore and if I do it goes away fast. 2) Recompostion. Same body weight but significantly leaner and more vascular. I would say those 2 stick out the most for me. I have been on 150-200 mg/week. Currently been on 150mg which is actually lower than my Rx of 200. Just been playing around with lower dosages. Haven’t really noticed a major difference between 150 or 200. Also I dropped my AI over a month ago. Waiting on labs too see what my E levels will be. Feel good and no issues.

 

[James]

What negative impacts do you have that you keep lowering dose?

It was just an overall uneasy feeling more so than anything specific that my labs would suggest. Difficulty sleeping, erection problems, I'd get angry quickly...none of which did I have pre TRT. Although I was in as good a shape as I was 20 years earlier, it just wasn't worth it to me. It started affecting my life and relationships and work, and it just wasn't worth it. I lowered my dose and have been doing better.

 

[themud]

Stop training 3 sets to failure. Problem solved. No fancy training...reverse pyramid what the heck is that. Just train.

RPT isn't fancy.

Warmup
Top set is heaviest then drop the weight 10-15% and repeat. 2nd set usually yields a bit higher reps.

When your first set in a week or two goes over 8 reps, increase the weight.

From ultramarthons and only doing 8 pull ups to one rep Max pull up with 105 pounds + body weight I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing.

This is 3 years only 2 years post TRT... 225 DL 1x to 420 at 165 lbs.

Recently been throwing in CrossFit metcon and airdyne tabata after workout and seeing gains again.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Anyone know at what blood level we see faster recovery from workouts?

800? 1000?

I've been any where from 600-1300 and yet to see fast recovery from workouts.

My workout A:
Mon: DL 2 sets 3-5 repish
Chins 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

Wed workout B: OHP
3x 8ish
Row 3x8ish
Dip 3x8ish

Fri A with squat:
Squat 3x8ish
Chin 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

I do them RPT (reverse pyramid training). First set after warm up is heaviest, then drop 10% with 3 minutes rest. All sets are to failure.

Pulling muscles always sore. I do a tabata on airdyne bike after the workouts and walk 1 hour daily. Sometimes I will run a little on my walks.

I do accessories when I have time like calves, and, back, biceps, triceps, but usually not.

So before you started TRT you were at 600, and now on TRT even at 1300 you’re not seeing faster recoveries....doesn’t surprise me at all. You’ve gone from average testosterone to above average numbers. You won’t see huge changes unless you start doing steroid level dosing with T north of 2,500. Especially given T is only one component of training. It sounds like your diet and workouts were the same before TRT, so you’re only nominally changing one aspect of your fitness tripod.

For me going from 400s to 1400 has helped my recoveries a lot. I used to be sore for a week, now I’m sore for 1 1/2 days.

 

[themud]

I was 300 when I started TRT. 600- we're my follow up labs.

I know try only puts me in normal range, but it also keeps me there within the normal fluctuations that endogenous T does, so I assumed recovery was faster and there would be zero to little catabolism going on.

 

[RLW]

Anyone know at what blood level we see faster recovery from workouts?

800? 1000?

I've been any where from 600-1300 and yet to see fast recovery from workouts.

My workout A:
Mon: DL 2 sets 3-5 repish
Chins 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

Wed workout B: OHP
3x 8ish
Row 3x8ish
Dip 3x8ish

Fri A with squat:
Squat 3x8ish
Chin 3x8ish
Bench 3x8ish

I do them RPT (reverse pyramid training). First set after warm up is heaviest, then drop 10% with 3 minutes rest. All sets are to failure.

Pulling muscles always sore. I do a tabata on airdyne bike after the workouts and walk 1 hour daily. Sometimes I will run a little on my walks.

I do accessories when I have time like calves, and, back, biceps, triceps, but usually not.

Before starting TRT 2 years ago my total T was 470 and free T was 6. I would do legs and be sore for 3-4 days. Started taking 150mg a week of Testosterone and by 8 weeks in I could do legs hard as ever and when I wake up the next day I can barely tell I worked out. And I'm talking about the kind of workout thats probably not even safe for a 41yr old man like myself. My labs since then have been around 1000 total T and free T has been around 25. I really don't think the key is the total T as much as the free T. I'm only double total T and 4 times the free T. If my free T only doubled to 12, I don't think I would have seen such a massive change.

 

[BradWI]

2016 (283 levels PRE TRT). 42 year old non gym goer. DOMS for days basically prevents me from working out. It's an endless cycle of frustration and low gains. You can't lift enough volume because you're sore for 3-4 days straight and you can't gain because you aren't putting in volume.

2017 - Start TRT. Don't work out and stay fat. Hmm logic.

2018 (620 Test) - Join a gym start lifting. 2-3 days a week focusing on form and compound movements. Not a structured program by any means. No DOMS noticed.

2019 (968 Test) - Now in the gym 6 days a week doing PPL since January. It's an endless cycle of gains and progression. You lift more volume because you're fully recovered before your next work out and you gain because you're putting in volume.

Just another anecdote of below range going to a higher range and noticing a pretty huge recovery difference. Even at 600 when I started lifting on TRT I didn't really notice DOMS at all.

 

[SilverSurfer]

There is no such thing as “DOMS” ffs. You lift heavy things, your muscles are sore from recovery. This bro-science garbage needs to stop. “PPL” is recycled and renamed from nearly 50 years ago! It’s as bad as all the made up acronyms and faux medical terms that nofap morons tout.

 

[fifty]

no such thing as DOMS?