TRT and Neurotransmitter Balance

[S1W]

What effects, if any, does TRT have on neurotransmitters, particularly on serotonin?

I know that in the initial stages of TRT, there is a pronounced effect on dopamine - I have been told that this is what causes the "honeymoon" that many guys experience.

Are there neurotransmitter imbalances that can be caused by long-term TRT and HPTA shutdown?

 

[Willyt]

It is a good question because quite a few forum members here (including myself) have experienced emotional flatness on TRT.

 

[Cataceous]

Dr. Marianco posted this interesting information quite a while ago. It gives a sense of the complexity of the subject.

 

[swoops36]

I bei

What effects, if any, does TRT have on neurotransmitters, particularly on serotonin?

I know that in the initial stages of TRT, there is a pronounced effect on dopamine - I have been told that this is what causes the "honeymoon" that many guys experience.

Are there neurotransmitter imbalances that can be caused by long-term TRT and HPTA shutdown?

i believe it helps with the transport and regulation of receptors.

 

[DragonBits]

What effects, if any, does TRT have on neurotransmitters, particularly on serotonin?

I know that in the initial stages of TRT, there is a pronounced effect on dopamine - I have been told that this is what causes the "honeymoon" that many guys experience.

Are there neurotransmitter imbalances that can be caused by long-term TRT and HPTA shutdown?

A lot of what I take now days is an attempt to change neurotransmitter levels, mostly to enhance sleep, but also mood.

What has had a noticeable effect? ( lot of supplements/hormones don't seem to have an effect).

GABA, usually strong effect within 6-10 min. Face feels very flushed blood preasure drops a lot, like 130> 95, and rises gradually over 2 hours. It did seem to vary recently.

Progesterone cream. Seems like more relaxed, sleep better. BUT I kept increasing dose from 0.35 mg a level "pinch", to a teaspoon, must be 10 times more.

Weirdly, I started to get dizzy, sometimes very dizzy, during the middle of the day. So I know it does something.

Another reason I took progesterone, my potassium is usually on the high side, this is connected to Aldosterone, which i also did a blood sample for, which measured very low but 0-30 is the range for Aldosterone, so you can't be lower than zero, I measured 6.4, all of which operates to control blood pressure.

I get a huge range in blood pressure, from 95/73 to 153/94, which seems to drift either up or down during the course of months. I am assuming it had something to do with testosterone / E2 or related hormones. But not at all sure what causes that.

So I wanted to get better control over BP and keep the range more consistently on the normal/low side, thus experimenting with progesterone for both sleep and BP.

Finally, kratom sure has an effect, more sociable, greater energy, motivation and stamina. I am taking the kratom with dopa mucuna. I have to think one it's affecting neurotransmitters.

Side effects have been dry month when I sleep, more constipation and after 8-9 hours a real slow down, more tired, sleepy. So I time it 8-9 to when I want to go to sleep. The slow down seems like an expected result, though it feels natural, it comes on fairly fast.

One positive side effect, when I get high from cannabis I get very unsteady on my feet, like a drunk walk, but taking Kratom shortly before cannabis, I am noticeably more steady and balanced when walking.

You can measure your neurotransmitter levels, it's about $100 from life extension, BUT I get the feeling that neurotransmitter levels vary quite a bit during the day and week to week, so not sure what an isolated point in time will tell me, and I don't want pay to do enough measurements to get some sort of trend line. Also, depending oh WHERE in the brain you look, various neurotransmitters will be at different levels,and it's all in a state of flux.

It's probably useful to measure levels if they are way out of linne with what expected, like you might get from a tumor, but outside of that, I think there is a lot of fluctuation going on.

I don't think TRT by itself affected neurotransmitter levels for me, but IMO it's a very complicated subject and many things seem to effect these balances, and getting older is one big influencer.

 

[drkelp]

Definitely complicated, definitely individualized.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I have read that kratom really messes with your testosterone... I don't have any issues at all with a small amount of weed nightly... I also drink a 8oz glass of red wine daily with lunch... neither seems to effect T so far... but I am only 6 weeks into TRT.

 

[DragonBits]

I have read that kratom really messes with your testosterone... I don't have any issues at all with a small amount of weed nightly... I also drink a 8oz glass of red wine daily with lunch... neither seems to effect T so far... but I am only 6 weeks into TRT.

as far as messing with testosterone, the key question is how?

Because I expect if it does it happens to natural production, but when we inject I know of nothing that can reduce testosterone after injection.

One "complaint" about nebido is once injected you are going to have a higher level of testosterone for 2-3 months with no way to lower it.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I get your point and you are probably correct... too few studies on kratom, unfortunately.
If not abused, it sounds like it has some good potential for a variety of ailments and pain. I have a pal in Orlando that loves the stuff, but uses only a few times a week...
I guess your labs will be your guide.
Not my beeswax, but why use Nebido? Why not just inject a few times/wk?
BTW: What is a good starting dose for Green Malay kratom... I have some, but am a bit nervy... as I get side effects from everything... thx!

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I am sure that after more than a year of mess getting dosages right, that consistent TRT has leveled out my neurotransmitters. The more recent years on TRT have been so much better than the years before.

For me, there is definite effect especially of estradiol on mood, so whatever is aromatized/derived from T, HCG, pregnenelone and DHEA to E, will move my moodiness. When hormones are stabilized at good levels, I am less anxious, less depressed, much more even keeled. And for the last year, this is in the context of numerous major life stressors. My life has been "turned upside down", but emotions are much more stable and I am weathering the difficulties much better compared to pre TRT.

Sorry I don't have anything actually quantifiable to add to the discussion, just this anecdote.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I am sure that after more than a year of mess getting dosages right, that consistent TRT has leveled out my neurotransmitters. The more recent years on TRT have been so much better than the years before.

For me, there is definite effect especially of estradiol on mood, so whatever is aromatized/derived from T, HCG, pregnenelone and DHEA to E, will move my moodiness. When hormones are stabilized at good levels, I am less anxious, less depressed, much more even keeled. And for the last year, this is in the context of numerous major life stressors. My life has been "turned upside down", but emotions are much more stable and I am weathering the difficulties much better compared to pre TRT.

Sorry I don't have anything actually quantifiable to add to the discussion, just this anecdote.

Mind saying what protocol you are now on? How much T, DHEA, pregnenolone, and or HCG do you take? Thx!

 

[DragonBits]

I get your point and you are probably correct... too few studies on kratom, unfortunately.
If not abused, it sounds like it has some good potential for a variety of ailments and pain. I have a pal in Orlando that loves the stuff, but uses only a few times a week...
I guess your labs will be your guide.
Not my beeswax, but why use Nebido? Why not just inject a few times/wk?
BTW: What is a good starting dose for Green Malay kratom... I have some, but am a bit nervy... as I get side effects from everything... thx!

Nebido, initially I wasn't offered a choice nor did I think about it. Going on TRT was a spur of the moment decision while on vacation in Thailand, I had no thoughts of TRT prior to this. I started having sex with a woman and wanted to up my sexual performance and thought testosterone would probably work, the doctor suggested Nebido. He did a PSA and EKG test, that was it. He also offered me some cialis, I tried it and didn't care for it nor need it.

After 10 years, I think Nebido is the best protocol out of all the choices, I don't like doing things that require frequent maintenance. Hematocrit is seldom a problem with Nedibo, but at the time I didn't think about hematocrit. I also like the long slow drop that occurs over 10-14 weeks. Honestly, I didn't do any blood tests for the first 3 years of this TRT. (I was self directed)

From my POV, the negative on Nebido is having to import it from another country, which often gets tricky, and injection is a 1.5 inch needle in the glute, much more difficult than what most others are doing.

Recently I had a problem importing Nebido, but I have a stock of testosterone cream and testosterone cypionate so I just switched. I prefer using UK pharmacies, but I would need either a NHS or private prescription, which means using some sort of telehealth doc in the UK.

Kratom I would start with 1 gram, I have a powder and that is ~ level 1/2 tea spoon. I wouldn't go over 3 grams.

Side effects for me are increased constipation and dry mouth.

My wife tried it, she got a headache and didn't like it.

I have read the effects kick in about 10 min and last 2-5 hours, for me it seems more like 10 hours, after that I get a big slow down and feel sleepy. Positives are increased energy, better mood, more talkative and more motivated, I can't really say how it affects pain, I don't have enough pain to really judge.

One unexpected effect, when I partake of cannabis it usually leaves me unsteady on my feet, if I combine it with kratom I am much more coordinated. Not sure if this is counteracting the cannabis as I only did this twice.

 

[TucsonJJ]

So... you or your Thai Doc didn't have your testosterone levels checked prior to going on Nebido? Didn't do any blood tests afterwards for 3 years? Then switched to creams and Injections, on your own with no oversight or dosage guidance... and still no blood work?
I'm a newbie... but that all seems sort of crazy... and I mean no offense... maybe some experienced guys here can offer better opinions...

 

[DragonBits]

So... you or your Thai Doc didn't have your testosterone levels checked prior to going on Nebido? Didn't do any blood tests afterwards for 3 years? Then switched to creams and Injections, on your own with no oversight or dosage guidance... and still no blood work?
I'm a newbie... but that all seems sort of crazy... and I mean no offense... maybe some experienced guys here can offer better opinions...

Not exactly, I gave the short version.

You can buy testosterone at a drug store without a prescription in Thailand, though it would be difficult to get nebido because it's much more expensive vs testosterone cypionate / enanthate and they don't carry it, the others are much cheaper more commonly available, though they don't like selling to tourists. I would have likely had to go to pattaya where the majority of western tourist hang out to buy testos cypionate.

I took a testosterone blood test in 1995 at age 40, it was 376 ng/dl at that time, it wasn't likely to get better with age. I got the Nebido in 2009. when I was 57.

I was only in Thailand 6 weeks in 2009 I visited several more times after that as I joined a thai dating site. I started more blood testing around 2011, then my testos level was 635 ng/dl, that is with nebido.

For a short time I got into international dating, thailand, hong kong, china, my next desired location was South America, but my dating life got sidelined when I got engaged.

The thai doctor gave me a prescription for Nebido, but that is only good for 6 months, and at that time UK pharmacies would accept a foreign prescription. The last 3 years I was using a UK pharmacy with a relationship with a UK telehealth doctor, he required 2 complete blood test before prescribing. But a few months ago that doctor left to another entirely different sort of practice, he wasn't replaced and the pharmacy won't issue Nebido without a prescription.

Thus my "problem" I "switched" 2 weeks ago, I used Nebido for over 10 years.

I had no health insurance since 2008 to about 2015, so I only ordered blood test if I got sick, and only went to a doctor if I got sick in a way that concerned me. I checked glucose / cholesterol on a regular basis several times a year. I did order eye retinal eye surgery ~2012m but with no health insurance I got the surgery in a fancy hospital in Bangkok, it was far cheaper. (I did deduct the air fare as medical travel.)

Since 2015 I have had over 25 blood tests which include the usual and the uncommon tests, including for testosterone. I think the excel male forum made me more curious.

And it has gotten cheaper and easier to order blood tests, and I was curious about many blood markers, like PSA, glucose challenge test, Pregnenolone, Aldosterone, IGF-1, Progesterone, calcium heart scans, DHT, cq10 levels, vitamin levels, iron panels, thyroid panels, detailed lipid analysis, along with all the common stuff.

ANd now I have medicare, so I see a doc on a regular basis.

But generally I am in good health, so nothing indicated any sort of problem, but now I know a lot of details. At least if anything were out of wack, I now have a trend line on many blood markers.

I wasn't giving advice, only answered "why nebido" and the question about kratom.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I wasn't being critical... sounds like you are pretty confident in your actions, so head on and best to you!