Too much Test?

[James]

Hey guys. Been on 160mg of cyp once a week, for 3 months and a few things are becoming abundantly clear. Good - much stronger in the gym, sleep great at night and my libido and sex life are amazing! Bad - zits all over my back/chest, nipples that poke out like a chick and the worst side effect of all...I'm constantly cycling between anxiety, depression and anger! I'm not as "happy" as I was prior to TRT. My pre test total was 190 ng/dl and 2 month later it shot up to 786 ng/dl (350 - 1100). This bloodwork was done 7 days after my last shot, so it's likely that my total was well over 1,000 ng/dl for several days after the injection. Mentally, I feel like shit. Doc wants to lower dose from 160 mg weekly, to 140 mg weekly. I'm thinking that might not be enough. Do you guys think that would be enough to feel a difference. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Vettester Chris]

James, yeah it might not hurt to cut back to even 120mg/wk. What I suggest is also doing it 2x per week, so maybe a 60mg on Wed. morning and a 60mg on Saturday night (or whatever schedule suits you best). Not sure if you are also taking HCG?? That would obviously play into your serum level if diagnosed 'Secondary'.

You really need to factor other variables upstream and downstream as well (E2, thyroid, adrenals, etc.), which will all contribute to your wellness program. I would also want to know where your free testosterone sits, which will be crucial (IMO) to dialing everything in.

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Symptoms indicate you may have high estridiol Have you had it tested? (ultra sensitive essay) depending on your SHBG and you may need less. Many of us need AI to help control E

Also are you taking any HCG ?

 

[Gene Devine]

Symptoms indicate you may have high estridiol Have you had it tested? (ultra sensitive essay) depending on your SHBG and you may need less. Many of us need AI to help control E

Also are you taking any HCG ?

^^^^Exactly what Dave said!

Your total at 7 days out is ideal.

I am willing to bet E2 is elevated as you are symptomatic.

 

[James]

Yeah, I've never been on an AI because doc said my E2 was too low. At baseline it was 12 pg/ml (8-43) and now it's 37 pg/ml (8-43), and 17 pg/ml (3-70), on the sensitive essay (had both tests done). Not on HGH either. Free is 23.5 pg/ml (6.8 - 21.5)...again, 7 days from last injection.TSH was 2.7 (0.700 - 5.970). SHBG at baseline was 24 (10-50). Anything jump out? I'm leaning towards 140 mg shots for a few weeks and see how I feel. Then may go to 2 smaller doses per week. In the world of testosterone dosage, do you guys think there is much of a difference between 160 mg and 140 mg?

 

[Jasen Bruce]

Good afternoon James. Posting your test results are very helpful, and it appears E2 is not the culprit. Even if E2 levels were higher I doubt that some of the symptoms you are experiencing would manifest that quickly, specifically the "chick nipples", which takes many many months of estrogen interaction to stimulate breast tissue growth. As for the acne, have you been prone to it in the past? When you were younger? Bringing T levels to youthful ranges can often cause re-occurance of hormone related issues experienced in youth, particulary acne. My dad experienced terrible acne for the first time in 20 something years after starting TRT, just from 100mg QW. The only thing that mitigated it was switching to a low dosed gel which keeps his levels between 500ng-650ng.

The emotional effects are something I observe often in patients within their first 90 days of starting TRT. There can be a lot of things at play here, in addition to underlying tendencies towards anxiety/depression. The psychosomatic effect of starting a life-long therapy can be under estimated, and men tend to begin over thinking everything that is going on in/on their bodies. You start paying attention more to yourself. Also, there is a lot of neuro-hormone balancing which can occur when sex hormones are manipulated. Some men feel more anxious, some more sleepy, some manic, etc during the first few weeks/months of therapy. Some lucky guys only feel the benefits.

I think splitting your dosage will be more noticeable than lowering from 160-140 once per week. IMO this decrease would be negligible unless you are super sensitive to minute changes, which is quite possible. Splitting your dosage would provide more stability in blood levels.

 

[Gene Devine]

Yeah, I've never been on an AI because doc said my E2 was too low. At baseline it was 12 pg/ml (8-43) and now it's 37 pg/ml (8-43), and 17 pg/ml (3-70), on the sensitive essay (had both tests done). Not on HGH either. Free is 23.5 pg/ml (6.8 - 21.5)...again, 7 days from last injection.TSH was 2.7 (0.700 - 5.970). SHBG at baseline was 24 (10-50). Anything jump out? I'm leaning towards 140 mg shots for a few weeks and see how I feel. Then may go to 2 smaller doses per week. In the world of testosterone dosage, do you guys think there is much of a difference between 160 mg and 140 mg?

The difference really depends upon how high your Total and Free T are.

As for how you feel and other benefits, yes the 20 mg will give you a boost in many areas.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I agree with Jasen. 20 mg difference in one weekly shot will hardly be noticeable. Splitting the injection is 2 per week would probably provide more of an effect.

I think some men are extra sensitive to testosterone and can have anxiety or coping issues (I call mood swings low coping since it really is related to that). Higher T levels in those men may not necessarily be a good thing. Dose adjustment may improve these issues.

James, if you were "happy" before TRT...did you get on TRT due to sexual dysfunction? Would it be better if you were off testosterone and just using ED drugs if that is the case?