The more I learn the more confused I am - DHEA and Estradiol

[rafapark]

These are my blood markers - all Labcorp
Total Testosterone: 1080 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 19.2 pg/ml
Estradiol sensitive: 34.2 pg/ml
DHEA : 103 ug/dl
IGF-1 : 206 ng/ml

I started TRT in April of this year

This is what I take
Cypionate: 74 mg twice a week (0.37 ml twice a week) . (started with 80mg twice a week)
Anastrozole: 0.125 mg twice a week (started with 0.5 mg twice a week)
HCG: 500 UI twice a week (started with 300 UIs twice a week)
Peptide GHRP-2/Sermorelin: 0.3 ml daily

I am very close to be dialed in but want to increase my DHEA. My concern based on what I've learned in this forum is that my estradiol will go out of range and I start losing libido. I had an advisory consultation with one of Jay Campell's round table doctors and he suggested I take 25 mg of DHEA twice a day. I told him my concern on estradiol and he insisted that DHEA does not increase estradiol ( which is of course different from what people say in this forum, thus my confusion). I have taken DHEA before and my estradiol went from 25 to 42 but I also reduced the anastrazole from 0.5 to 0.125 at the same time so I can't blame the DHEA on the increase alone. I had a significant libido increase with DHEA for a while so I know there is a DHEA sweet spot somewhere. I stopped taking it because of my increase on estradiol and because I started loosing libido and erections strength. I want to find that sweet DHEA spot again.

My idea would be to start taking DHEA again but only 5 or 10 mg daily and see how it feels. What would you do in my case?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.


Rafa

 

[Sean Mosher]

I started with 10mg once a day and have stopped at 20mg.
Noticed the increase in libido for sure.
No estrogen problems.
Taking DHEA seems to vary tremendously from individual to individual so you'll have to experiment.
All the roundtable docs use it in their protocols it seems so just work/talk with the one you're working with and start low.
Some can tolerate the higher doses, some can't.

 

[Gman86]

Ya just start low and go slow. DHEA doesn't shut down your natural production of DHEA, so you can start with as low as 5mg. It's only going to add to what you're already making. I would just start very low and see how you feel, and titrate up if needed. Here's a really good video that talks about DHEA, and a few other hormones. From what he says, a healthy male only produces about 15mg per day of DHEA, and men don't need much to get their levels up. Check it out.

 

[rafapark]

Ya just start low and go slow. DHEA doesn't shut down your natural production of DHEA, so you can start with as low as 5mg. It's only going to add to what you're already making. I would just start very low and see how you feel, and titrate up if needed. Here's a really good video that talks about DHEA, and a few other hormones. From what he says, a healthy male only produces about 15mg per day of DHEA, and men don't need much to get their levels up. Check it out.

That is what I will do. Start with 5 mg once a day instead of going to 25 mg twice a day as this doc suggests. One thing I have learned is that even expert T doctors are still learning about this stuff.

 

[Vince Carter]

In men the possibility that it aromatases is rather high, will or won't depends on you. Too when you read the bad stories about it you can always see a guy taking 50mg and on up. Further, using the right kind of delivery system can be a problem. Using the cheap OTC tablets at walmart are pretty sure way to get it to aromatase thru the liver. Though using transdermal, or sublingual would be much better. I'm not convinced that oral micronized capsule is any better thru the oral route.
I don't advocate DHEA (or Preg) use though do encourage low dosing like 5mg/D to judge tolerance.

 

[rafapark]

Ya just start low and go slow. DHEA doesn't shut down your natural production of DHEA, so you can start with as low as 5mg. It's only going to add to what you're already making. I would just start very low and see how you feel, and titrate up if needed. Here's a really good video that talks about DHEA, and a few other hormones. From what he says, a healthy male only produces about 15mg per day of DHEA, and men don't need much to get their levels up. Check it out.

I saw the video by the way. Very informative and pretty well supported. Thank you. It says that DHEA converts to estrogen and that one should take max 15mg a day divided in doses. Interesting how many different POVs there are on this one subject. wow.

 

[Gman86]

I saw the video by the way. Very informative and pretty well supported. Thank you. It says that DHEA converts to estrogen and that one should take max 15mg a day divided in doses. Interesting how many different POVs there are on this one subject. wow.

Ya I agree. Very interesting how different we all are. Ya if I remember correctly, he mentions that there were studies where past a certain dose there were no added benefits but added side effects, like estrogen elevation. So maybe the guys on higher doses might get a lot of the benefit with smaller doses. Or maybe those guys really do need such high doses. We’re all so different, wouldn’t surprise me if it were a little of both. But if I were to start supplementing with DHEA, I would just start with a very low dose and go up slowly if needed. It’s not like testosterone. If you take a small dose of testosterone, it shuts off your natural production and you might be left with less testosterone than you had naturally. With DHEA it just adds to your natural production. So I see no reason to not start with a very low dose, other than impatience. Which trust me, I have a lot of lol.

 

[Gman86]

In men the possibility that it aromatases is rather high, will or won't depends on you. Too when you read the bad stories about it you can always see a guy taking 50mg and on up. Further, using the right kind of delivery system can be a problem. Using the cheap OTC tablets at walmart are pretty sure way to get it to aromatase thru the liver. Though using transdermal, or sublingual would be much better. I'm not convinced that oral micronized capsule is any better thru the oral route.
I don't advocate DHEA (or Preg) use though do encourage low dosing like 5mg/D to judge tolerance.

Good points. I think I’m going to end up using DHEA in the future, and the starting dose is easy. Just start very low and go up slowly if needed. What’s not so obvious is the route. Do we know yet what is the preferred route of administration? My gut tells me it’s sublingual with DHEA, but is there a common consensus on this board yet about the preferred route?

 

[rafapark]

Good points. I think I’m going to end up using DHEA in the future, and the starting dose is easy. Just start very low and go up slowly if needed. What’s not so obvious is the route. Do we know yet what is the preferred route of administration? My gut tells me it’s sublingual with DHEA, but is there a common consensus on this board yet about the preferred route?

I am going to start with 5 mg troche from Defy and see what happens. Not sure why this doc is recommending 25mg twice a day. Doesn’t seem like a responsible thing to recommend.

 

[madman]

These are my blood markers - all Labcorp
Total Testosterone: 1080 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 19.2 pg/ml
Estradiol sensitive: 34.2 pg/ml
DHEA : 103 ug/dl
IGF-1 : 206 ng/ml

I started TRT in April of this year

This is what I take
Cypionate: 74 mg twice a week (0.37 ml twice a week) . (started with 80mg twice a week)
Anastrozole: 0.125 mg twice a week (started with 0.5 mg twice a week)
HCG: 500 UI twice a week (started with 300 UIs twice a week)
Peptide GHRP-2/Sermorelin: 0.3 ml daily

I am very close to be dialed in but want to increase my DHEA. My concern based on what I've learned in this forum is that my estradiol will go out of range and I start losing libido. I had an advisory consultation with one of Jay Campell's round table doctors and he suggested I take 25 mg of DHEA twice a day. I told him my concern on estradiol and he insisted that DHEA does not increase estradiol ( which is of course different from what people say in this forum, thus my confusion). I have taken DHEA before and my estradiol went from 25 to 42 but I also reduced the anastrazole from 0.5 to 0.125 at the same time so I can't blame the DHEA on the increase alone. I had a significant libido increase with DHEA for a while so I know there is a DHEA sweet spot somewhere. I stopped taking it because of my increase on estradiol and because I started loosing libido and erections strength. I want to find that sweet DHEA spot again.

My idea would be to start taking DHEA again but only 5 or 10 mg daily and see how it feels. What would you do in my case?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.


Rafa

Dehydroepiandrosterone Research: Past, Current, and Future

 

[Gman86]

I am going to start with 5 mg troche from Defy and see what happens. Not sure why this doc is recommending 25mg twice a day. Doesn’t seem like a responsible thing to recommend.

This is the exact route I was planning on using if I ever need to use DHEA. I heard that Empower offers a sublingual troche that you can break up into smaller milligrams if needed. Didn’t know they offered a 5mg troche. Good to know. Last person I talked to on here that had ordered DHEA troche’s from Empower said his came in 100mg doses.

 

[rafapark]

Sorry, Defy does not offer a 5 mg troche. They offer 25 mgs and I plan to split it in four so I guess is a 6.25 mgs. That is what I will use to start.

 

[Vince]

I believe the inexpensive brands are just as good as the expensive ones. I would start with a low dose of inexpensive DHEA and slowly move up your dose. I supplement with 25 mg of Jarrow brand just to keep my levels good. When I experimented with DHEA it did lower my testosterone and increase my estrogen. The more DHEA I supplemented with the lower my testosterone got and the higher my estrogen went.

 

[Gman86]

I believe the inexpensive brands are just as good as the expensive ones. I would start with a low dose of inexpensive DHEA and slowly move up your dose. I supplement with 25 mg of Jarrow brand just to keep my levels good. When I experimented with DHEA it did lower my testosterone and increase my estrogen. The more DHEA I supplemented with the lower my testosterone got and the higher my estrogen went.

Sucks for natural guys then . Us on TRT don’t have to worry about the lowering of our testosterone with DHEA, and can control E2 elevation with the dose I would imagine.

 

[Gman86]

Sorry, Defy does not offer a 5 mg troche. They offer 25 mgs and I plan to split it in four so I guess is a 6.25 mgs. That is what I will use to start.

Thanks for the clarification. Are the troche's big enough to split into 8ths? 6.25mg doses would be good, just wondering it it's possible to get it down to 3.125mg doses or not.

 

[rafapark]

Thanks for the clarification. Are the troche's big enough to split into 8ths? 6.25mg doses would be good, just wondering it it's possible to get it down to 3.125mg doses or not.

Hey. I just ordered the troches last week from Hallandale. I will let you know as soon as I get them. I might want to start that low too if I can split them that small.

 

[lemonflavor]

Sorry this is off topic, but I'm wondering how you dose at such a specific number like 74mg. Not a criticism. I've seen some finer dose numbers and I'm wondering why that is. Edit: or .37ml.

 

[rafapark]

Sorry this is off topic, but I'm wondering how you dose at such a specific number like 74mg. Not a criticism. I've seen some finer dose numbers and I'm wondering why that is. Edit: or .37ml.

We are talking about spliting a troche in more or lesss equal parts. It will not be 100% accurate.

 

[lemonflavor]

We are talking about spliting a troche in more or lesss equal parts. It will not be 100% accurate.

I was referring to T injection.

 

[Vince Carter]

I was referring to T injection.

There are syringes marked off in hundredths(?), most are marked in 2/4/6/8/10 increments but some brands/models are marked in 1/2/3/4/5 and so on to achieve a dose of .37mL, for instance.