The longer I'm on TRT, the worse I feel. Idk what to do anymore.

[Bupropion78]

I LOVE when guys here experiment like this. Not sure why you went through so many different brands of test, but I love that you did lol. Thanks again for posting this.

Yes is true !

 

[at15]

Do you think EOD, daily injections, etc are all b.s.?

Just curious as to what your/others thoughts are on this as some members claim it makes all the difference for them.

yes. there is no medical literature that would support this. if someone says they are benefiting from frequent injections its all psychosomatic. we know levels are completely stable on once weekly injections based on the many medical studies out there.

 

[sh1973]

Very true At15

 

[Cataceous]

yes. there is no medical literature that would support this. if someone says they are benefiting from frequent injections its all psychosomatic. we know levels are completely stable on once weekly injections based on the many medical studies out there.

Does "completely stable" cover a 30-50% drop off the peak? The pharmacokinetic studies indicate an apparent half-life of about five days for testosterone cypionate. If you're questioning the differences between ED, EOD, and maybe even E3D injections, then yes, there's a pretty good case for stable levels. But much less so for weekly injections. Larger serum testosterone swings from less frequent injections may be problematic if peak estradiol is higher, which is probably the case.

 

[at15]

Does "completely stable" cover a 30-50% drop off the peak? The pharmacokinetic studies indicate an apparent half-life of about five days for testosterone cypionate. If you're questioning the differences between ED, EOD, and maybe even E3D injections, then yes, there's a pretty good case for stable levels. But much less so for weekly injections. Larger serum testosterone swings from less frequent injections may be problematic if peak estradiol is higher, which is probably the case.

yes once weekly injections are completely stable. stable means not falling off enough to where you would go to low and feel symptoms. steady state is maintaining about the same testosterone level everyday. ED, EOD, E3D thats all steady state which is not desirable. Do you break your tylenol pill up into 8 pieces and take one every 30 minutes? no way!

 

[Cataceous]

yes once weekly injections are completely stable. stable means not falling off enough to where you would go to low and feel symptoms. steady state is maintaining about the same testosterone level everyday. ED, EOD, E3D thats all steady state which is not desirable. Do you break your tylenol pill up into 8 pieces and take one every 30 minutes? no way!

An unusual definition of "stable". So using your Tylenol analogy, do you take six pills once each morning? I'd view this latter as akin to injecting testosterone every two weeks. Maybe three pills twice a day would be like testosterone once a week. It would work for some and not others.

 

[antelopers]

I may not have been using enough when I tried once a week, but if I injected on a Monday, I'd feel great Tuesday Wednesday, kind of flat Thursday Friday, and then the weekend felt like I had low T. I have shbg in the mid 30s.

 

[sh1973]

I think weekly injections provide enough half life overlap to certainly be considered true steady state. My peak is normally 250-350ng greater than my trough verified by labs. Cypionate or enanthate we’re not designed to be a daily route of administration and like Dr Saya has said in the past can cause an accumulative effect in many men.

 

[Cataceous]

I think weekly injections provide enough half life overlap to certainly be considered true steady state. My peak is normally 250-350ng greater than my trough verified by labs. Cypionate or enanthate we’re not designed to be a daily route of administration and like Dr Saya has said in the past can cause an accumulative effect in many men.

The semantics seem to be an issue. "Steady state" just means that serum testosterone in each inter-injection period looks the same as the others. You could inject once a month and be in a steady state; every month testosterone would start high and go to nothing by the end.

Personally I would define "stable" levels as having minimal variation, say less than +/-10% from the mean. This would be variation that we would not detect in any subjective sense.

I think you're wanting to say that, for you, weekly injections keep serum testosterone in a physiological range. This isn't going to be true for everyone. Guys who absorb faster will go above-range early on and then below-range later in the cycle. And guys with low SHBG are more likely to have problems with larger and slower hormonal variations. This is because free estradiol can more easily become large relative to free testosterone.

 

[antelopers]

The semantics seem to be an issue. "Steady state" just means that serum testosterone in each inter-injection period looks the same as the others. You could inject once a month and be in a steady state; every month testosterone would start high and go to nothing by the end.

Personally I would define "stable" levels as having minimal variation, say less than +/-10% from the mean. This would be variation that we would not detect in any subjective sense.

I think you're wanting to say that, for you, weekly injections keep serum testosterone in a physiological range. This isn't going to be true for everyone. Guys who absorb faster will go above-range early on and then below-range later in the cycle. And guys will low SHBG are more likely to have problems with larger and slower hormonal variations. This is because free estradiol can more easily become large relative to free testosterone.

Do you think based on this that twice per week would be ideal using cypionate or enanthate for the average guy with mid range shbg (mid 30s)?

 

[Cataceous]

Do you think based on this that twice per week would be ideal using cypionate or enanthate for the average guy with mid range shbg (mid 30s)?

Yes, I agree that injecting twice-weekly represents the best compromise. If I were a TRT doctor I would encourage average patients to start with this and to only try less frequent injections later on if injection fatigue was becoming an issue.

 

[Lokop]

I have already ordered pharmaceutical testosterone instead of compounded, but now I'm not sure whether to inject once for fluctuations or twice for a little more stability based on the debate in this thread.

 

[fifty]

Don’t overthink it. Most humans in history have done once a week then moved to twice a week if they felt tired at the end of a week.

 

[S1W]

For others reading this, it should be noted that one of the advocates for once weekly injections in this thread has very high SHBG, and the other has never tested his SHBG...wouldn't be surprised if it was on the higher side.

I have played around with testing myself on consecutive days just for kicks. On a Mon AM/Thur PM E3.5D protocol, I have seen a peak of around 1450 TT on Tuesday afternoon go all the way down to around 875 TT just two days later on Thursday afternoon. And that is with SHBG in the lower end but still in the "normal" range, at 23.

I have tried 1x/week injections - they simply do not work for me. Wish they did.

The moral of the story? Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

For others reading this, it should be noted that one of the advocates for once weekly injections in this thread has very high SHBG, and the other has never tested his SHBG...wouldn't be surprised if it was on the higher side.

I have played around with testing myself on consecutive days just for kicks. On a Mon AM/Thur PM E3.5D protocol, I have seen a peak of around 1450 TT on Tuesday afternoon go all the way down to around 875 TT just two days later on Thursday afternoon. And that is with SHBG in the lower end but still in the "normal" range, at 23.

I have tried 1x/week injections - they simply do not work for me. Wish they did.

The moral of the story? Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all.

Yes, this is an old thread, but highly relevant. There's a physician on T-Nation forum who goes by the screen name of Highpull. He does once weekly and has many of his patients on that protocol, finding that the majority do well on it, including himself. Dosage ranges from 100 to 200 mg per week. I like simplicity. I acknowledge that managing hormones isn't always simple. I did five months of daily shots. Didn't see any improvements.

60 mg, once weekly, sounds like a good place to start and if I feel worse after 6 or 8 weeks, I can split the dose to E3.5D.

 

[DixieWrecked]

I'm glad you bumped this thread. There might be something to this. Has anyone else had a significantly different outcome from using compounded vs big pharma test? My experience with compounded test has not been good, and I have not tried big pharma test. Seems strange that one would feel different with the same numbers.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I'm glad you bumped this thread. There might be something to this. Has anyone else had a significantly different outcome from using compounded vs big pharma test? My experience with compounded test has not been good, and I have not tried big pharma test. Seems strange that one would feel different with the same numbers.

This is interesting. I've never gone to compounded. Using rx West-Ward test enanthate. I've thought of switching to compounded Test C because sometimes there's a shortage of Test E and it is somewhat less expensive. Test C in grapeseed oil since I get sides from cottonseed oil.

 

[Gman86]

This is interesting. I've never gone to compounded. Using rx West-Ward test enanthate. I've thought of switching to compounded Test C because sometimes there's a shortage of Test E and it is somewhat less expensive. Test C in grapeseed oil since I get sides from cottonseed oil.

What sides do u get from cottonseed oil?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

What sides do u get from cottonseed oil?

Low grade headache, pressure behind the eyes, burning when urinating, crampy feeling.

 

[Gman86]

Low grade headache, pressure behind the eyes, burning when urinating, crampy feeling.

Damn, those are some legit sides right there. And positive they’re form the cottonseed oil?