Testosterone and depression ..Dr. Mark Gordon

[jws1300]

I'm not him but I had all normal thyroid readings except for a slightly low t3 and a high-ish reverse t3. Started a low dose of cytomel and it's like a fog has been lifted out of my brain.

Good to know antelopers. Any other symptoms? And what dosage are you on? The brain fog and just feeling like theres a walnut in my forehead persist almost daily. No pain really, just like a frontal lobe headache without the pain. From my eyes to the top of my head almost, kind of a pressure.

 

[jws1300]

And then I see that HYPERthyroid is more associated with anxiety than HYPOthyroid, and then it bums me out. I have anxiety AND the terrible brain fog smh. Guess I could still try the cytomel at a small does and see how I do.

 

[antelopers]

Good to know antelopers. Any other symptoms? And what dosage are you on? The brain fog and just feeling like theres a walnut in my forehead persist almost daily. No pain really, just like a frontal lobe headache without the pain. From my eyes to the top of my head almost, kind of a pressure.

I am just generally in a better mood, no brain fog, not crashing mid afternoon anymore. Libido has gone up slightly as well. Definitely less of those tired pressure headaches. I never noticed cold hands or feet, but I did notice that I'm warmer now in a good way. It's only been a few weeks, so hopefully these benefits increase or at least persist.

 

[Gman86]

I am just generally in a better mood, no brain fog, not crashing mid afternoon anymore. Libido has gone up slightly as well. Definitely less of those tired pressure headaches. I never noticed cold hands or feet, but I did notice that I'm warmer now in a good way. It's only been a few weeks, so hopefully these benefits increase or at least persist.

What dose of cytomel are you on? And how many times per day do you take it?

 

[Gman86]

Any updates Gman? I've had about 10 people now tell me same type of info. Hypo symptoms with a high Rt3. Had one guy have me check my heart rate right when waking and morning temperatures. My heart rate is in the mid 50's basically every night while sleeping and in the morning until I move around. He says low metabolic rate can be a thyroid symptom as well. Testing cytomel is still on my wish list to see how i feel.

Too soon for any valid updates. Been taking WP thyroid for about 2 weeks now. It’s NDT (natural desiccated thyroid). No changes really. But just recently got up to 2 grains. My morning temp is slightly higher, but not by much. Gonna stay at 2 grains for about 3 weeks, and then pull some thyroid labs to see if I need to increase my dose. Also curious to see if I’m converting any of it into RT3. My RT3 was around 8-11 before going on thyroid medication. So hopefully it stays around there, or even lower would be nice.

 

[antelopers]

What dose of cytomel are you on? And how many times per day do you take it?

I am on 20mcg of sustained release cytomel daily. I started at 10mcg and even felt the benefits at that dose. My doctor has approved me to go as high as 30mcg as long as I go up slowly (every 2 weeks).

 

[Gman86]

I am on 20mcg of sustained release cytomel daily. I started at 10mcg and even felt the benefits at that dose. My doctor has approved me to go as high as 30mcg as long as I go up slowly (every 2 weeks).

On interesting, so you’re taking the sustained release? I haven’t really heard good things about that, but it clearly seems to work for you. Are you on the actual brand named cytomel? Or a generic version of sustained T3? And you take it once per day I assume?

 

[antelopers]

On interesting, so you’re taking the sustained release? I haven’t really heard good things about that, but it clearly seems to work for you. Are you on the actual brand named cytomel? Or a generic version of sustained T3? And you take it once per day I assume?

It's compounded sustained release t3 through empower. I don't believe there is any other way to get a sustained release version of cytomel without using a compounding pharmacy. I saw great reviews for the sustained release and it makes more sense to me to have constant levels than a few big spikes. I take it once a day, first thing in the morning.

 

[Gman86]

It's compounded sustained release t3 through empower. I don't believe there is any other way to get a sustained release version of cytomel without using a compounding pharmacy. I saw great reviews for the sustained release and it makes more sense to me to have constant levels than a few big spikes. I take it once a day, first thing in the morning.

Ya a sustained release T3 definitely makes sense, I agree. Since it’s through Empower, I assume it just says liothyronine sodium on the bottle right? It doesn’t say cytomel on the bottle does it? Cytomel is a brand name of liothyronine (T3).

 

[antelopers]

Ya a sustained release T3 definitely makes sense, I agree. Since it’s through Empower, I assume it just says liothyronine sodium on the bottle right? It doesn’t say cytomel on the bottle does it? Cytomel is a brand name of liothyronine (T3).

Yes that's correct.

 

[Mr S]

I think it can, sometimes. On Pregnyl HCG, my testicles were much fuller, it greatly added to my testosterone level, and my DHEA-S level almost doubled. On Empower's HCG, my testicles are much smaller, I get no addition to my testosterone level, and my DHEA-S is back down to where it was pre-TRT. So I think, theoretically, HCG can stimulate the leydig cells with LH, and backfill downstream hormones, but not always. At least in my experience.

IMO, you'll basically know when HCG is doing it's job, especially if you're secondary. Testicles will be bigger, due to the leydig cells being stimulated by the LH signal, loads will be bigger, total testosterone will get a boost (if you're secondary), and you should see a spike in DHEA-S.

If I may ask, why did you switch from pregnyl HCG to compounded HCG?

 

[Vtail]

Ya a sustained release T3 definitely makes sense, I agree. Since it’s through Empower, I assume it just says liothyronine sodium on the bottle right? It doesn’t say cytomel on the bottle does it? Cytomel is a brand name of liothyronine (T3).

I'm also taking the sustained release liothyronine from Empower. Before starting, my RT3 was 23 and T3 was 3.2. I started with 10 mcg about 3 weeks ago, and increased to 20 mcg last week. My doc also said I could go up to 30 mcg every two weeks if I felt I needed it and there were no side effects. So far my brain fog is gone and I don't feel as tired (mentally) as I had been - before starting the meds I was usually fried by about 2pm and unable to concentrate. My body temp is still low (was 95.5 when I woke up today!!) so I may increase to 30 mcg in another week, although mentally I don't feel that I really need it however I still do not sleep well. I guess as long as there are no adverse 'hyper-like' side effects, then I guess there's no harm in increasing the dose and see how I feel. I'm scheduled for labs in 3 weeks and will report back then. But already I feel much better without the brain fog. It was really debilitating.

 

[Gman86]

I'm also taking the sustained release liothyronine from Empower. Before starting, my RT3 was 23 and T3 was 3.2. I started with 10 mcg about 3 weeks ago, and increased to 20 mcg last week. My doc also said I could go up to 30 mcg every two weeks if I felt I needed it and there were no side effects. So far my brain fog is gone and I don't feel as tired (mentally) as I had been - before starting the meds I was usually fried by about 2pm and unable to concentrate. My body temp is still low (was 95.5 when I woke up today!!) so I may increase to 30 mcg in another week, although mentally I don't feel that I really need it however I still do not sleep well. I guess as long as there are no adverse 'hyper-like' side effects, then I guess there's no harm in increasing the dose and see how I feel. I'm scheduled for labs in 3 weeks and will report back then. But already I feel much better without the brain fog. It was really debilitating.

Thank you so much for this reply. Extremely helpful. It shows that clearly the sustained release T3 is something that works extremely well, and it also shows that RT3 is EXTREMELY important to get tested. 99% of regular doctors and/ or endocrinologists would of never tested RT3, and would just go by your TSH and free T3 level. Your free T3 was 3.2. You would of never gotten treatment from a regular doctor or endo, but clearly this is what you needed. Just kind of sad thinking about all the people out there that are hypothyroid without even knowing it. Or know it, but just can’t get their doctors to treat them since their free T3 is within range.

 

[Gman86]

If I may ask, why did you switch from pregnyl HCG to compounded HCG?

Ya no prob. CVS kept telling me that Pregnyl was on back order and that they couldn’t fill it. I read online that apparently the makers of Pregnyl stopped manufacturing it. Not sure if that was true or not. But it just became very difficult to fill. I didnt want to have to be off of HCG for months at a time. So I just bit the bullet and decided to use Empower’s HCG, since I knew it would most likely always be available, and it’s a little cheaper.

 

[Mr S]

Ya no prob. CVS kept telling me that Pregnyl was on back order and that they couldn’t fill it. I read online that apparently the makers of Pregnyl stopped manufacturing it. Not sure if that was true or not. But it just became very difficult to fill. I didnt want to have to be off of HCG for months at a time. So I just bit the bullet and decided to use Empower’s HCG, since I knew it would most likely always be available, and it’s a little cheaper.

A guy in some thread here orders his from Walmart Specialty Pharmacy and he uses a GoodRx coupon to get a better price. Walmart delivers it to him by mail and they include the syringes. He pays around 108$ for a 10,000iu vial of Pregnyl.

 

[Gman86]

A guy in some thread here orders his from Walmart Specialty Pharmacy and he uses a GoodRx coupon to get a better price. Walmart delivers it to him by mail and they include the syringes. He pays around 108$ for a 10,000iu vial of Pregnyl.

I'm doing an experiment atm to see how I do off of HCG, but once I reintroduce it, this is exactly what I plan on trying. Thank you.

 

[Vtail]

I'm doing an experiment atm to see how I do off of HCG, but once I reintroduce it, this is exactly what I plan on trying. Thank you.

Interesting. I'm considering adding HCG as an experiment. I have no need for it that I'm aware of - no more kids for me, however I've been hearing more and more about how HCG should be considered a standard add-on to TRT. I plan on speaking with my doc about it during my next visit.

 

[Gman86]

Interesting. I'm considering adding HCG as an experiment. I have no need for it that I'm aware of - no more kids for me, however I've been hearing more and more about how HCG should be considered a standard add-on to TRT. I plan on speaking with my doc about it during my next visit.

It’s definitely not a standard add on. Every doctor has different opinions. For some it’s standard, some they basically never use it, and some use it if a guy is young and wants to maintain fertility/ a guy wants to prevent atrophy.

But I don’t see anything wrong with trying it. I would give it a shot, and see if you notice improvements in certain areas, or if it makes anything worse.

 

[Vtail]

It’s definitely not a standard add on. Every doctor has different opinions. For some it’s standard, some they basically never use it, and some use it if a guy is young and wants to maintain fertility/ a guy wants to prevent atrophy.

But I don’t see anything wrong with trying it. I would give it a shot, and see if you notice improvements in certain areas, or if it makes anything worse.

There's a podcast called Super Human Radio, and occasionally they speak about TRT. In their episode # 2312 (from March 7th) they talk about how HCG should be incorporated into TRT regardless of fertility concerns. If I recall correctly, it was something about how introducing variability into the body is a good thing, as opposed to being on the same dose of TRT month-after-month and year-after-year. I think they were recommending using HCG for 6 weeks out of every 3 months. But again, I will defer to my doc regarding whether or not I try it. So far I think I'm on the path to being "dialed in", but since I've only been on TRT for a few months I don't really have much to compare to. All I know for sure is that I feel better then I did prior to TRT.

 

[Saxon]

is not up to date with the sensitive estradiol test and the lab he works with only use the standard assay.

This alone tells me the guy is a quack.