Taking DHEA and Pregnenolone with surprising result

Thread starter #21
James, my emotions and anxiety came back. Emotions I've adjusted too and the preg and dhea really help with anxiety. One thing I don't like being off the AI is the water weight.
 
Thread starter #22
Update: Gave blood today and my hemo is 13.7 and BP is 104/66. So for whatever reason the preg and dhea is impacting my hemo and BP. Any thoughts?
 
#23
Update: Gave blood today and my hemo is 13.7 and BP is 104/66. So for whatever reason the preg and dhea is impacting my hemo and BP. Any thoughts?
I was in 25mg of DHEA for 1 week and dropped it to 12.5mg today. Started taking DHEA and I lost the quality of my morning erections. Feel sleepy too. It does help me with anxiety though. If 12.5 doesn't work, I'll drop it to 6.25. My DHEA-S was low, but I probably felt better without he DHEA, at least at 25mg a day.
 
#25
James, you say your levels are low, but you feel better when you don't supplement dhea. So I guess I wouldn't use it. :rolleyes:
That's would be an advanced level of common sense that I sometimes lack. Like alot of guys with HCG, we're convinced it's a smart health decision despite sometimes not feeling much from it. For me, it takes away my anxiety, but reduces the strength of my erections, at least after 1 week of use. I decided to lower my dose to 12.5 and see if things improve. Hopefully so.
 
#26
That's would be an advanced level of common sense that I sometimes lack. Like alot of guys with HCG, we're convinced it's a smart health decision despite sometimes not feeling much from it. For me, it takes away my anxiety, but reduces the strength of my erections, at least after 1 week of use. I decided to lower my dose to 12.5 and see if things improve. Hopefully so.
probably too much estrogen conversion a lower dose might help.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
#27
Estradiol, progesterone and pregnenolone synergistically improve cognitive function and a sense of calmness.

I think we are learning a lot lately about how shutting down these hormones can affect us emotionally.


TRT shuts down or reduces upstream hormones like pregnenolone and progesterone. The HPTA shut down of LH and FSH also has implications. We need LH to activate Steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) to make upstream hormones while on TRT. In the absence of LH, HCG can do the trick to wake up the production of pregnenolone and progesterone (taking pregnenolone supplements can also accomplish this but without StAR activation).


hcg effect in hormonal pathway.jpg

LH activates the areas shown as stars. TRT shuts down LH and thus several hormones upstream of testosterone. HCG can mimic LH's effect and compensate for this shut down.

As time goes by, the use of TRT+HCG will grow stronger as more data is generated on this fact.

All steroid hormones are derived from cholesterol. A series of enzymatic steps in the mitochondria and endoplasmic reticulum (ER) membrane of steroidogenic tissues convert cholesterol into all of the other steroid hormones and intermediates.

The rate-limiting step in this process is the transport of free cholesterol from the cytoplasm into mitochondria. This step is carried out by the Steroidogenic Acute Regulatory Protein (StAR)

Activating StAR has many benefits (read the link above).


Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) regulates the expression of Steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) via the ERK1/2 pathway
 
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#28
Nelson - If a guy were to take either Preg or DHEA (not both), which would you think would be most beneficial? Of course we're assuming both Preg and DHEA are low due to TRT.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
#30
Nelson - If a guy were to take either Preg or DHEA (not both), which would you think would be most beneficial? Of course we're assuming both Preg and DHEA are low due to TRT.

There may be some cognitive and calming effect, but I am just speculating since no one in the world has done a study looking at TRT+preg+DHEA vs TRT alone, or TRT+HCG vs TRT alone to measure any mood or cognitive effect differences.
 
#31
Pregnenolone also helped me with sleep and dreams.

I take Preg cream from life flow and 25mg sublingual dhea nightly from life extension.
 
#32
Could be more going on for me, but after self starting DHEA 25mg, then Saya bumping me up to 25mg 2x/day plus 25mg pregnenelone, I've had a lot of improvement in mood stability, and much less anxiety.
 
#33
That's awesome Blackhawk. We are privy to the best docs in the business... and most of us know more than 95% of regular endos... it's all about tweaks and adjustments... bloodwork and feel... keep t high control e2 backfill pathways... my battle right now is with armour... feel amazing on it but causing some unexplained weight gain.
 

JQ88

New Member
#34
Nelson,

What are the benefits of dhea while on trt?

It definitely increases estrogen so I'm wondering if the benefits outweighs the negatives.

Currently I'm on 25mg dhea sublingual from life extension and pregnenolone cream from life flow.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Thread starter #35
I have an update. I backed down Dhea to 50mg once a day. Here are my test results:
Dehydroepiandrosterone, S.
3.0 ng/mL. <6.0 ng/mL
I stopped taking Preg. Reason being is I didn’t need it anymore. I’m on HCG now and it calms me. Both together was too calming. Here are my T and E:
Testosterone. 691.94 ng/dL. 87-780.1 ng/dL
Estradiol. 33.8 pg/mL

I prefer my T around 800 but I was injecting a lower amount of T since I was worried the HCG may add to it. Yes I know not the sensitive E test but Docs here won’t do that test but it gives me an idea. I’m surprised how good my E is with DHEA and HCG.

I take 250 iu’s of HCG every morning subq for 6 days then I take 120 mg of T of Enan on the 7th. I love how it makes my balls bigger and hang more. It allows my buddy hang more too. I notice more fluid in my sac and a thickening of my base. Very happy using this. So happy I don’t need an AI. My hemo and hema are going up some but I’m sure they will steady out again.
 
#36
I went on Arimidex 1 year ago because I was getting like freaky anxious and crazy emotional. It did help but I have been doing a lot of researching and I'm leaning towards Nelson's take on using an AI. I have been off Arimidex now for 3 months now. I did have some water gain after a few weeks but that leveled off. My anxiety was getting bad again and emotions did increase but it didn't bother me as much since I have made some adjustment to them but definitely noticeable. I decided to try Pregnenolone and DHEA. It has dramatically reduced my anxiety. I am a lot calmer. Emotion wise I would say I am just as emotional but there is a difference. I have more control over my emotions. Noticeable side effect for me are dreams. I just gave blood and my Hemo has been at a very steady 15.5 and now it's 13.8 and my BP was on average 130/80 and now 120/70. Now I know it may be unrelated so I will see if both stay low. Maybe I ate too many almonds recently ;-p. I have noticed a definite increase in my ability to focus and recall memories. Yes I know what you are going to ask. Did I test prior, no I did not. One, I know my endo won't and two it's not cheap. So I am bieng very careful and not taking that high of an amount. 50 mg DHEA twice a day and 50 Pregnenolone once in the morning. I agree with Nelson on not messing with your E unless it's really high. If you do get very anxious and you are very emotional from being on TRT I would give DHEA and Pregnenolone a shot. Just be ready to dream your ass off.
Same happened to me right about 6 Months into TRT, started to worsen my previously improved Anxiety, bp going up and developing High E2 symptoms, like being overly emotional, well I think it took me a couple of years to realize that probably the cause of all was the decrease production of Pregnelonone despite I was on HCG. I was offered by Doc to try a small AI and at that time symptoms improved but same as you not for too long.

Also at the 6 months marker into TRT, beside that Anxiety, I had developed the loss of Joy, or the ability to celebrate at the completion of goals for example, maybe some depression? if I could have been then just so analytic of my symptoms I'm sure Doc then could have made suggestions on it as from there things just went worse and worse.

As the past year or more I always take a OTC Pregnelone 50mg, it helps with mood and anxiety, but I really need to Optimaze this very important hormone, when I sometime take an extra 50mg in the late PM I feel joyful, more open to people and "warmer" and I don't mean temperature wise
 
#37
Older post but just read through it . Just spent a bit of time reading studies and posts.

I stopped dhea for a month because of sides and my levels came back above range . That was only after 2-3 weeks of dosing.

I decided tonight to start dhea after reading and decided to lower dose. Many studies and articles and patient feedback:posts said it helps with sleep. Goal is to see if I’m mentally stressing myself at night and thus having issues.

I wonder if dhea will not helonme sleep if my cortisol is not an issue. Or am I wrong. Does cortisol become active when there is no DHEA to fight for the same receptor? @Nelson Vergel

I guess Time will tell. Tomorrow I’ll start EOD.

Do you think EOD is effective @Nelson Vergel ? Will it still stay at stable levels within my system? I can’t do daily. Hair itches, body itches and I feel like junk. Moment I removed dhea I felt better. I wonder if DHT and dhea together causes this or it’s just dhea. I am on cream but no issues when I dose only when I take dhea.

Lastly what else should I be taking if I’m not on HCG and just cream, thyroid,vitamin d, b6 Preg, dhea.
 

captain

Active Member
#38
According to MayoClinic.com, allergic reactions may occur in some individuals taking DHEA. Allergic reactions are characterized by the presence of redness on the skin, itching, swelling, blistering, rashes, shortness of breath, runny nose, hives and sneezing. MayoClinic.com strictly advises such individuals to avoid DHEA products.

Maybe take an antihistamine with your DHEA and see what happens. Quail egg supplements work surprisingly well for allergies if that is whats happening.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
#39
Older post but just read through it . Just spent a bit of time reading studies and posts.

I stopped dhea for a month because of sides and my levels came back above range . That was only after 2-3 weeks of dosing.

I decided tonight to start dhea after reading and decided to lower dose. Many studies and articles and patient feedback:posts said it helps with sleep. Goal is to see if I’m mentally stressing myself at night and thus having issues.

I wonder if dhea will not helonme sleep if my cortisol is not an issue. Or am I wrong. Does cortisol become active when there is no DHEA to fight for the same receptor? @Nelson Vergel

I guess Time will tell. Tomorrow I’ll start EOD.

Do you think EOD is effective @Nelson Vergel ? Will it still stay at stable levels within my system? I can’t do daily. Hair itches, body itches and I feel like junk. Moment I removed dhea I felt better. I wonder if DHT and dhea together causes this or it’s just dhea. I am on cream but no issues when I dose only when I take dhea.

Lastly what else should I be taking if I’m not on HCG and just cream, thyroid,vitamin d, b6 Preg, dhea.
To be honest, I have not seen any data on DHEA supplementation and sleep quality. I do not take since I tried it several times in the past and I never really perceived any benefits. Mine stays within rage without supplementation.

hCG is not a must if you have no testicular atrophy or low libido.
 
#40
To be honest, I have not seen any data on DHEA supplementation and sleep quality. I do not take since I tried it several times in the past and I never really perceived any benefits. Mine stays within rage without supplementation.

hCG is not a must if you have no testicular atrophy or low libido.
Thanks for the response.

It’s been many months and years probably since I’ve fallen asleep within n hour. Normally it takes me 1-3 hours. I took it last night 2 hours or so before bed and I actually slept within 30 mins and dreamt well. I did not toss and turn or wake up at all. Amazing. Cortisol could be my problem.

Problem is I itch like crazy.
 
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