Switched to EOD and feeling worst

[carkrazy]

Guys,
As some of you know, I recently changed protocols from weekly injections to every 3.5 days. That change was a pretty drastic decision on my part but I almost immediately felt the benefits of it and stayed the course for seven weeks before drawing blood the day before next injection.
Testosterone: 615.9 ng/dl 264 - 916
Free Test: 17.0 pg/ml 6.8 - 21.5
estradiol: 28.6 pg/ml 8.0 - 35.0
SHGB: 17.2 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9
PSA: 0.9 ng/ml 0.0 - 4.0
Hematocrit: 44.8 % 37.5 - 51.0

Being that I did so well on every 3.5 days At 50 mg of testosterone I made the decision to inject EOD with 30 mg of testosterone. By my second shot I started to feel like crap so I lowered it to 25 mg but I’m still feeling pretty crappy. I really thought being that I have such low SHGB that I would really see the benefits in the change quickly like I felt when I went to 3.5 days. My sleeping is horrible my anxiety is way up in my snoring is out of control again. Anyone have any suggestions on why this could be happening? I know I haven’t given it enough time but I did not feel like this when I switch to every 3.5 days. I actually felt pretty good when I did the switch to 3.5 days. Should I try to lower it to 22 mg? Even though I have low SHBG could my body just not like The EOD protocol? I’m really confused And feel like I’m back at square one.

 

[Vince Carter]

Good point of not messing with something that is working for you. Id bet your E is way too high, for you, Free Estradiol. Hard to say to you to ride it out but if it's this bad just stop and go back.

 

[Vince]

I agree with Vince Carter, it takes time for your levels to adjust. So I would try to work through it and hopefully it will pay off. If not you can go back to your old protocol.

 

[carkrazy]

That’s the part I don’t understand. Shouldn’t my estradiol be lower on EOD?
Do you think my numbers looked good on every 3.5 days? Those numbers are 3 days post injection. I’m assuming the day of injection my sensitive Estradiol would be higher correct?

 

[Vince Carter]

I think people have a very flawed idea of more frequent inj and less E, never worked for me. I think your E given your SHBG of 17 (on E3.5D) I think was possibly, by the numbers, still too high. You really should be testing "Estradiol, Free", if it's affordable for you. Running only the Sensitive LC/MS/MS is akin to only running Total Test.

 

[carkrazy]

I think people have a very flawed idea of more frequent inj and less E, never worked for me. I think your E given your SHBG of 17 (on E3.5D) I think was possibly, by the numbers, still too high. You really should be testing "Estradiol, Free", if it's affordable for you. Running only the Sensitive LC/MS/MS is akin to only running Total Test.

My God, I have so much to learn. I’m more confused now then ever before on what protocol is best for me. So EOD injections will raise your free E but lower sensitive E? How would one control Free E? Anastrozole?
I’m sorry for all the questions but i’m Just so frustrated. I’ve been chasing the sweet spot for 2 years now and it’s getting old.

 

[Vince Carter]

If E3.5D is working for you then there's no reason to change that. You said it was working, everyone is different but yes the typical advice for an SHBG of 17 would be EOD. But I don't think you've given it a chance, either.

 

[carkrazy]

If E3.5D is working for you then there's no reason to change that. You said it was working, everyone is different but yes the typical advice for an SHBG of 17 would be EOD. But I don't think you've given it a chance, either.

I know Vince, I’m the worst at over thinking things and the minute I feel it’s not right I want to change. I’m going to continue EOD and give it a chance. Could I just be dosing to high for EOD? I started at 30mg but went down to 25mg. What are your thoughts on dosage?

 

[Vince Carter]

Your dose sounds fine, Id do 25 and let it work its way out and hit those labs at 6 weeks, adjust your dose based upon where your Free T is at. Again, use the Estradiol, Free, test, in addition to the LC/MS/MS

 

[carkrazy]

Your dose sounds fine, Id do 25 and let it work its way out and hit those labs at 6 weeks, adjust your dose based upon where your Free T is at. Again, use the Estradiol, Free, test, in addition to the LC/MS/MS

Will do. Thanks Vince!

 

[carkrazy]

Vince, since we touched on the subject of e2 and free e2. would you treat it the same with an AI? What I mean is, can one have healthy e2 sensitive levels but have high free estradiol? How would one address that if it is even possible to have such a thing?

 

[carkrazy]

update: still feeling worst by the day. anxiety is off the charts and now experiencing acne on forehead, face and major water retention. I'm no rocket scientist but obviously my e2 is getting high. I'm not going to waste my time or money doing labs since I haven't been on the protocol long enough to get accurate results. I'm going to stop the EOD and switch back to every 3.5 days as that seemed to have worked better for me and I have the above labs to go by. I was really hoping EOD would control my e2 but it seems to have made it worse. My above numbers were taken the day prior to injection on the every 3.5 days and my e2 was at 28.6 so i feel that might be slightly on the high side as well. I think I'm just going to have to accept the fact that I need an AI to control my e2. I will also be testing free estradiol on next labs for sure. what do you guys think of .25 anastrozole twice a week on day of in jection on the every 3,5 day protocol based on my above labs?

 

[optimizely]

Jeez man, this sounds exactly like the situation I put myself in right now. On September 5th, I decided to put myself on 16mg daily injections. I was on E 3.5 days for two years with no issues. But, due to low SHBG and the influencers on this forum I decided to try daily for E2 conversion. So far I have felt like absolute shit waking up multiple times throughout the night and having hot flashes with facial flushing throughout the day. I’m going to take a wild guess and assume my estrogen is off the charts. I got bloodwork done today so we will see what that says. I’m stuck and not sure like yourself if I should stop and go back to my old protocol or give it more time.

 

[Systemlord]

Speaking for myself 25mg EOD was too much, levels were near 1000. When you inject more frequently you can't inject more than you were before you made the switch, you must decrease dosage by 10-20%.

When I saw the 30mg EOD I knew what the outcome was going to be. Basically what you did was increase your weekly dosage when moving from twice weekly to EOD.

 

[lenny]

Speaking for myself 25mg EOD was too much, levels were near 1000. When you inject more frequently you can't inject more than you were before you made the switch, you must decrease dosage by 10-20%.

The opposite is true for me. I had to *increase* my weekly total on a daily protocol.

I was previously on 140 mg a week with a peak in the 1100s, and on a daily protocol, in order to reach my target steady state in the 900s I have to do 24 mg a day (168 mg total per week). When I tried injecting a 140 mg weekly total (20 mg a day), I was down in the 500s and feeling like dirt. 22 mg a day only got me up to 700, which felt noticeably better, but not all the way there.

The same was true a few years ago when I tried doing twice-per-week injections. I had to inject more to reach similar levels, but it was impossible for me to get dialed in that way.

 

[carkrazy]

Jeez man, this sounds exactly like the situation I put myself in right now. On September 5th, I decided to put myself on 16mg daily injections. I was on E 3.5 days for two years with no issues. But, due to low SHBG and the influencers on this forum I decided to try daily for E2 conversion. So far I have felt like absolute shit waking up multiple times throughout the night and having hot flashes with facial flushing throughout the day. I’m going to take a wild guess and assume my estrogen is off the charts. I got bloodwork done today so we will see what that says. I’m stuck and not sure like yourself if I should stop and go back to my old protocol or give it more time.

2 years with no issues on every 3.5 day injections? Just go back to that. That’s what I’m going to do.

 

[carkrazy]

Speaking for myself 25mg EOD was too much, levels were near 1000. When you inject more frequently you can't inject more than you were before you made the switch, you must decrease dosage by 10-20%.

When I saw the 30mg EOD I knew what the outcome was going to be. Basically what you did was increase your weekly dosage when moving from twice weekly to EOD.

I thought 30 eod was a lot too.i mentioned it in another post but tried anyway. I felt the surge right away after just the 3rd injection and went down to 25mg eod. 1week later went to 22mg but by then I was feeling like dg shit and didn’t want to continue. Sometimes you just have to listen to your body. In my case i could see I was heading nowhere fast on eod injections.

 

[carkrazy]

So my question still remains. Based on the my above listed labs would .25 mg of anastrozole every 3.5 days taken with injections be ok?

 

[Vince Carter]

I would not suggest an AI until you get labs showing your Free T has come down closer to the lab range, whatever dose that is your using now, verify it with a blood draw and then consider an AI. Ill suggest again, too, the "Estradiol, Free", test.

 

[carkrazy]

I would not suggest an AI until you get labs showing your Free T has come down closer to the lab range, whatever dose that is your using now, verify it with a blood draw and then consider an AI. Ill suggest again, too, the "Estradiol, Free", test.

I agree with the free estradiol and will Be definitely testing for that on my next blood draw. However, the above listed labs were done after seven weeks on every 3.5 day protocol. Since I already know what my numbers are like on that protocol based on the numbers that are listed would you take anastrozole or not?