SubQ Injections - Injection depth and site

[S1W]

I will be changing my protocol soon and will be injecting SubQ, E3.5D, T. Cyp., with a 27g 1/2" needle. For those of you who inject SubQ:

- My main question is regarding how much of the needle should I insert: If I inject in my stomach for example, would I simply insert the entire 1/2" of the needle all the way to its base at 90 degrees? Or only half of the length?

- Do you inject SubQ in the stomach, or have you found other areas that you prefer?

EDITED TO ADD: Could someone also please explain the difference between SubQ and Shallow IM?

Thanks!

 

[HealthMan]

Depends on how much fat you have. I am very lean so i prefer a 5/16 inch needle. You can inject either 90 degrees or 45 degrees (again depending on how much fat you have). I always inject all the way in. If you have little fat you might want to inject at 45 degree angle to avoid hitting muscle.
Testosterone i cannot inject in the stomach fat... i get some bad lumps. So i prefer injecting on thighs or buttocks fat. No site reactions there.

 

[Vince Carter]

I will be changing my protocol soon and will be injecting SubQ, E3.5D, T. Cyp., with a 27g 1/2" needle. For those of you who inject SubQ:

- My main question is regarding how much of the needle should I insert: If I inject in my stomach for example, would I simply insert the entire 1/2" of the needle all the way to its base at 90 degrees? Or only half of the length?

- Do you inject SubQ in the stomach, or have you found other areas that you prefer?

EDITED TO ADD: Could someone also please explain the difference between SubQ and Shallow IM?

Thanks!

You can make this too hard. Stick the needle in and push the plunger. Done. that's it. There are no other things to consider here...sub q or IM or shallow IM are pretty much irrelevant terms and only refer to the size of the needle desired in gauge and length.

 

[Blackhawk]

I get aching pain for @3 days any time injected into muscle, so prefer SubQ.

I have pretty low body fat. The only places I have any to speak of are right around the umbilicus and a little over dorsal glutes. 1/2" needle straight in anywhere goes into muscle fascia or IM, so i use 5/16" needle. I have not found any larger bore than 30g, but after learning to use these tiny needles it's not problem, just takes a little while to fill syringe and push when injecting, Even with this short needle I pull up skin and hold when injecting to avoid going IM.

I inject T with little to no discomfort or problems subQ in belly to the side of the belly button, in the love handle areas and over glutes, either dorsal or ventral. I have a 6 injection rotation:

R butt, R love handle, R side of belly next to belly button, L side of belly next to belly button, L love handle, L butt.

There seem to be many who don;t like SubQ, but works great for me!

 

[S1W]

You can make this too hard. Stick the needle in and push the plunger. Done. that's it. There are no other things to consider here...sub q or IM or shallow IM are pretty much irrelevant terms and only refer to the size of the needle desired in gauge and length.

I should add that my protocol change is going from transdermal to injectable. I've never injected before. So given that my needles will be 27g 1/2", just stick it in my stomach, glute, etc and let 'er rip? No need to aspirate with that gauge and length, etc.?

Thanks again to all of you for your responses.

 

[Starplex]

Ventrogluteal is the best I have found. You can do a search on here. Several good threads.

 

[Vince]

Dr. John Crisler, SubQ Injection Demonstration
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[Nashtide]

I should add that my protocol change is going from transdermal to injectable. I've never injected before. So given that my needles will be 27g 1/2", just stick it in my stomach, glute, etc and let 'er rip? No need to aspirate with that gauge and length, etc.?

Thanks again to all of you for your responses.

here's the thing. Your going to be doing this for life. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Find some fat. Jab and push.

 

[Leesto]

here's the thing. Your going to be doing this for life. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Find some fat. Jab and push.

Well said. It is easy to overthink this stuff and then obsess over it. I can tell no difference in absorption or effectiveness whether I inject sub-Q or IM and my labs show similar results either way. So why complicate it? Just pin it and get on with your life.

 

[MG123]

I will be changing my protocol soon and will be injecting SubQ, E3.5D, T. Cyp., with a 27g 1/2" needle. For those of you who inject SubQ:

- My main question is regarding how much of the needle should I insert: If I inject in my stomach for example, would I simply insert the entire 1/2" of the needle all the way to its base at 90 degrees? Or only half of the length?

- Do you inject SubQ in the stomach, or have you found other areas that you prefer?

EDITED TO ADD: Could someone also please explain the difference between SubQ and Shallow IM?

Thanks!

1. For this it will depend on your body composition. I would always go all the way in with the needle either way. If your thin, you can pinch up some adipose and inject at a 45 degree angle. If you aren't thin, just go in at a 90 degree angle. None of this requires geometrical precision, so no protractors are necessary. Just avoid the muscle.

2. When I did subq, stomach was fine for a while, but I started getting welts. I now do shallow IM into thighs and deltoids.

3. Subq goes only so far as to inject into the subcutaneous tissue or hypodermis. It consists mostly of fat. Shallow IM penetrates far enough past the subcutaneous layer so as to inject into the muscle. If your subq tissue doesn't like to have oil injected into it, i.e. you get welts, then it is a great option to try.

I've seen a lot of guys whose T levels remain the same whether they use subq or IM. For me, though, my T levels increased dramatically switching from subq to IM utilizing the same dose.

 

[HealthMan]

1. For this it will depend on your body composition. I would always go all the way in with the needle either way. If your thin, you can pinch up some adipose and inject at a 45 degree angle. If you aren't thin, just go in at a 90 degree angle. None of this requires geometrical precision, so no protractors are necessary. Just avoid the muscle.

2. When I did subq, stomach was fine for a while, but I started getting welts. I now do shallow IM into thighs and deltoids.

3. Subq goes only so far as to inject into the subcutaneous tissue or hypodermis. It consists mostly of fat. Shallow IM penetrates far enough past the subcutaneous layer so as to inject into the muscle. If your subq tissue doesn't like to have oil injected into it, i.e. you get welts, then it is a great option to try.

I've seen a lot of guys whose T levels remain the same whether they use subq or IM. For me, though, my T levels increased dramatically switching from subq to IM utilizing the same dose.

I second that. My T levels are much better with IM vs subq and I feel better

 

[FeelingLost]

I will be changing my protocol soon and will be injecting SubQ, E3.5D, T. Cyp., with a 27g 1/2" needle. For those of you who inject SubQ:

- My main question is regarding how much of the needle should I insert: If I inject in my stomach for example, would I simply insert the entire 1/2" of the needle all the way to its base at 90 degrees? Or only half of the length?

- Do you inject SubQ in the stomach, or have you found other areas that you prefer?

EDITED TO ADD: Could someone also please explain the difference between SubQ and Shallow IM?

Thanks!

Hi S1W,
I only did one IM since it was with a 27ga 1/2" needle I am guessing it was shallow. I attempted to hit that muscle right above the ass cheek. It ached and hurt like hell for 3 days. Ever since (6 weeks 3 times a wk) I have done SQ around my belly button. I found if you go in @ 90 degree there is a 50% chance you will get a bump that can last for 4 days. For me, YMMV, slightly pinching the skin to lift it from the muscle and inserting @ 45 degrees has worked perfectly.

hth

 

[LTChris]

I started with 27ga 1/2" syringes. I recently switched to 31ga 5/16", .3ml syringes. I really like these. I can get away with the smaller cylinder size due to daily injections and the greater hydraulic force allows for faster fill time with test cyp. Just have to make sure to inject slowly. It is easy to get overly complicated on this. I have a big box of different size syringes I have tried. Everybody is different. Relax and take your time. I jump around between belly, love handles, delts, quads. I have little body fat. Usually 45 degrees on the love handles, 90 degrees everywhere else. Never aspirate. good luck you will do great.

 

[S1W]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your replies. All very helpful and informative. I did my first injection today of HCG and T. Cyp. (both subQ in abdomen) using FeelingLost's advice below and it went just fine.

One question I had though after this first experience: I've read that drawing the T. Cyp. with the 27g needle can be slow. I kept the needle tip in the oil, bottle inverted, and had a really hard time getting the oil drawn. Seemed to be drawing in a huge air bubble in addition to the oil. I had to draw it way past my dose marker to get enough oil, then push the excess oil and air back in. Still had a few air bubbles that I couldn't seem to get rid of (in addition to the super tiny ones at the base of the plunger which I assume you can't get rid of), even after removing the needle and inverting it, flicking the barrel, and pressing the plunger a tiny bit until oil came out. Some oil was left in there too. The arrow in photo below shows the amount of oil left after injection and an air bubble.



Any thoughts on what I might have done wrong or how I could do better next time?

 

[Blackhawk]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your replies. All very helpful and informative. I did my first injection today of HCG and T. Cyp. (both subQ in abdomen) using FeelingLost's advice below and it went just fine.

One question I had though after this first experience: I've read that drawing the T. Cyp. with the 27g needle can be slow. I kept the needle tip in the oil, bottle inverted, and had a really hard time getting the oil drawn. Seemed to be drawing in a huge air bubble in addition to the oil. I had to draw it way past my dose marker to get enough oil, then push the excess oil and air back in. Still had a few air bubbles that I couldn't seem to get rid of (in addition to the super tiny ones at the base of the plunger which I assume you can't get rid of), even after removing the needle and inverting it, flicking the barrel, and pressing the plunger a tiny bit until oil came out.

Any thoughts on what I might have done wrong or how I could do better next time?

Pulling T cyp, (my dose is 24iu in the syringe)
- I warm the vial on my body for a while, warm fluid is less viscous than cold.
- Clean the top of the vial
- Pull 24iu of air into the syringe and inject into the vial so over time vacuum does not form in the vial.
- Invert vial and syringe. Having a slight tilt seems to help oil flow and forms less air bubbles than vertical position
- Pull the plunger back to 50 or 60 iu and wait about 1 1/2 minutes with 30g for a bit more than 24iu to enter the syringe
- With vial and syringe vertical I push the plunger back up slowly which helps to dislodge the air bubbles that have formed, and expel excess fluid until I reach 24iu. I do this slowly and wait for bubbles to rise so they can be expelled.
-There is always a single tiny bubble still in the syringe, but when injecting I hold the syringe so the bubble stays up against the plunger, it seems it never comes out.

Seemed to be drawing in a huge air bubble in addition to the oil.

Maybe just the vacuum formed by pulling the plunger, but there are ways that air gets into the syringe:

1-If you are using a luer tip syringe/needle combo. If the needle is loose on the syringe, it can suck air.
2-If your needle is long enough to protrude beyond the fluid in your vial you can draw air instead of fluid. This can be corrected by pulling the needle back down so the tip is in the fluid. (you said you were aware/didn't do this)

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi S1W I am so glad my tip worked for you. I don't believe you have to worry about those small air bubbles we are not injecting in a vein.
I also get them and fix it the way you did by sucking more in than needed and then pushing the biggest bubble out as best I can.
I also do Blackhawks tip of injecting air into the T bottle. Having a little positive pressure in the bottle helps the syringe to fill.

I keep my T bottle at room temp about 75F and it takes less than 30 seconds to fill .25
I do put my HCG in first (30IU) this is the last to come out of the syringe so there is no T waste in the needle.