Stopping trt without a pct?

[Jmoney]

Just curious. I had a varicocele surgery and stopped my testosterone to see if the surgery improved my testosterone levels. I've been off for 4 weeks almost. I was on trt for about 2 years and my dosage was 100mg weekly split into two injections. I am 43 years old.
I haven't taken a PCT. What is the benefit of taking a pct vs not? I heard a PCT just lessons the crash, regardless your hpta will restart.
So far I don't feel awful but I definitely feel very tired, low motivation, low libido but I am still working out and pushing myself to do things. When should I retest my levels with labs also?
Thanks!

 

[Systemlord]

I haven't taken a PCT. What is the benefit of taking a pct vs not? I heard a PCT just lessons the crash, regardless your hpta will restart.

I didn't crash, I just kept feeling better the longer I'm off TRT. You're never going to get definitive answers, because for some of us we recover our HPTA rather quickly making a PCT redundant, while others take longer to restart HPTA functionality without a PCT.

My HPTA has always bounced back very fast, which tells me that testosterone was never my problem.

 

[Willyt]

I did the same several times. Just fight through the first 2 months and you will be good to go. I always liked the idea of challenging my HPTA system to restart on its own.

If nothing else, taking break from TRT gives you perspective on what TRT does and does not offer.

BTW, can you give some background on the varicocele surgery? I have read on this site that you may see modest bump in TT after.

 

[Jmoney]

I didn't crash, I just kept feeling better the longer I'm off TRT. You're never going to get definitive answers, because for some of us we recover our HPTA rather quickly making a PCT redundant, while others take longer to restart HPTA functionality without a PCT.

My HPTA has always bounced back very fast, which tells me that testosterone was never my problem.

I went to the urologist today. He offered me HCG and or Clomid. I didn't want it since I'm already a month and a week off. I figured the HCG would just shut me down again plus it costs a lot. The clomid I've tried in the past and it made me super grumpy. They also drew my blood today for a full hormone panel. I know I need more time to get to baseline but I figured I'd see how things are looking in the meantime.
So stopping without a PCT won't have any difference in the long run?

 

[Jmoney]

I did the same several times. Just fight through the first 2 months and you will be good to go. I always liked the idea of challenging my HPTA system to restart on its own.

If nothing else, taking break from TRT gives you perspective on what TRT does and does not offer.

BTW, can you give some background on the varicocele surgery? I have read on this site that you may see modest bump in TT after.

Exactly what I'm thinking. My plan is to go off the testosterone for 3 months, evaluate how I feel. I think 3 months should be adequate for my body to recover and be at its "normal". If I don't feel great I can always get back on and say I tried.
The varicocelectomy surgery was outpatient. I had the varicocele since I was in my early 20s. My testosterone even back then was in the low 300s. I always wondered what could be causing it to be low since I'm very athletic, eat very well and in great shape. This urologist was willing to do the surgery. Usually they only fix varicoceles for fertility, however there is some reasearch fixing it can increase testosterone up to 100 points. Because the dilated veins heat up the testis. I tried to get off after the surgery last year but it was to hard. I had a staph infection and the incision opened up. So I got back on.

 

[carlweathers]

I came off TRT a month or so ago, I was on for about 2 years. I had some clomid, so I used that for a couple weeks until I started feeling poor, then it came out and I felt ok.

Diet, diet, diet, and sleep. Focus on your nutrition, all those macronutrients are supporting your health, organs, hormones etc. Aim for a lower bodyfat percentage too. Use a calorie tracker such as Cronometer, it gives you all nutrient values pertaining to the food you put in your diary. Keep plugging in foods until there are full percentage values for the daily intake.

Beef organs have been a powerhouse in my routine. I take them with each meal, aids in digestion, metabolism, and recovery from training, among other things. They are a powerhouse for your hormones as well. They contain the most bioavailable nutrients on the planet.

 

[Belekas]

Been off TRT for the last odd 12 mos or something like that. Came off cold-turkey after the same time on and without PCT. I've done same only with PCT before but thought wtf might as well man up and see what happens. I have a lot of personal experience with aas, supps, nutrition, etc so I know how I feel and perform very well. And to be fair I will never do it again like this. As simple as that. Always did hcg then clomid and never ever felt anything but this time oh man I felt lots of "it" lol. At first no issues but it hit around 6 mos in. Dragged it out, now cool but still haven't done any blood tests to see how well I've recovered. Lots of changes but that would take a lot of time to type and since I'm still im bed post my morning decaf coffee I will make another post if theres interest about my cold-turkey experience. YMMV.

 

[Jmoney]

I came off TRT a month or so ago, I was on for about 2 years. I had some clomid, so I used that for a couple weeks until I started feeling poor, then it came out and I felt ok.

Diet, diet, diet, and sleep. Focus on your nutrition, all those macronutrients are supporting your health, organs, hormones etc. Aim for a lower bodyfat percentage too. Use a calorie tracker such as Cronometer, it gives you all nutrient values pertaining to the food you put in your diary. Keep plugging in foods until there are full percentage values for the daily intake.

Beef organs have been a powerhouse in my routine. I take them with each meal, aids in digestion, metabolism, and recovery from training, among other things. They are a powerhouse for your hormones as well. They contain the most bioavailable nutrients on the planet.

How have you been feeling since your post? I have been feeling up and down. I have been falling asleep much earlier but waking up extremely early and very tired. My motivation isn't the best. But I notice by late afternoon I feel I have no energy left for much. I feel socially awkward talking to people. I have been working out a lot and trying to get my testosterone going. Testicle size has increased. I've been eating pretty clean as well.

 

[Jmoney]

Been off TRT for the last odd 12 mos or something like that. Came off cold-turkey after the same time on and without PCT. I've done same only with PCT before but thought wtf might as well man up and see what happens. I have a lot of personal experience with aas, supps, nutrition, etc so I know how I feel and perform very well. And to be fair I will never do it again like this. As simple as that. Always did hcg then clomid and never ever felt anything but this time oh man I felt lots of "it" lol. At first no issues but it hit around 6 mos in. Dragged it out, now cool but still haven't done any blood tests to see how well I've recovered. Lots of changes but that would take a lot of time to type and since I'm still im bed post my morning decaf coffee I will make another post if theres interest about my cold-turkey experience. YMMV.

Wow that's a long time to still be feeling those symptoms. I'm wondering if you are just back to your baseline and you are so used to how you felt on testosterone. Why don't you get your labs done and see? Seems so delayed for symptoms to hit. Is think the first month or so would be the hardest. I have been off almost a month and a half and I am definitely feeling it. But not horrible. Just not as motivated, libido is slowly coming back, I get exhausted by early afternoon and my sleep is wierd.

 

[Belekas]

Wow that's a long time to still be feeling those symptoms. I'm wondering if you are just back to your baseline and you are so used to how you felt on testosterone. Why don't you get your labs done and see? Seems so delayed for symptoms to hit. Is think the first month or so would be the hardest. I have been off almost a month and a half and I am definitely feeling it. But not horrible. Just not as motivated, libido is slowly coming back, I get exhausted by early afternoon and my sleep is wierd.

Had too much on my plate that running labs was the last thing on my mind. It is what it is and next time will do a proper PCT which made me feel absolutely spot on when compared to this time cold-turkey. Im guessing that I'm below or at the baseline because I'm very lean. Was always lean but got way leaner when stopped TRT and I've done bloods before when I'm that lean and the numbers don't look too encouraging fwiw. Anyway hope you feel better and good luck!

 

[Jmoney]

Had too much on my plate that running labs was the last thing on my mind. It is what it is and next time will do a proper PCT which made me feel absolutely spot on when compared to this time cold-turkey. Im guessing that I'm below or at the baseline because I'm very lean. Was always lean but got way leaner when stopped TRT and I've done bloods before when I'm that lean and the numbers don't look too encouraging fwiw. Anyway hope you feel better and good luck!

Totally makes sense! I appreciate you sharing.
I had my labs drawn 4 weeks after stopping testosterone and being on 2 years. I'll post my results. I didn't expect them to be great especially since it's only been 4 weeks but I wanted to see where I was at then test later. The one thing that's interesting is that my free testosterone on my labs I calculated on a free testosterone calculator website and the website showed my levels different. Did someone calculate wrong?
Thank you!

 

[Seagal]

Totally makes sense! I appreciate you sharing.
I had my labs drawn 4 weeks after stopping testosterone and being on 2 years. I'll post my results. I didn't expect them to be great especially since it's only been 4 weeks but I wanted to see where I was at then test later. The one thing that's interesting is that my free testosterone on my labs I calculated on a free testosterone calculator website and the website showed my levels different. Did someone calculate wrong?
Thank you! View attachment 48777View attachment 48776

If your albumin were about 3 then you would get that FT value. More likely they used another mathematical model to calculate the FT.

 

[Jmoney]

If your albumin were about 3 then you would get that FT value. More likely they used another mathematical model to calculate the FT.

So their free testosterone calculation is incorrect? My albumin is 4.7. What is my free testosterone then?

 

[Seagal]

So their free testosterone calculation is incorrect? My albumin is 4.7. What is my free testosterone then?

@madman is the FT expert. I recall that he mentioned a bias towards lower values of the calculated FT for lower TT values. He can give you the best informed answer.
Is in your lab report any reference to the method used for calculating FT?

Not sure if it matters much whether your FT is 7, 8, or 9.

 

[Systemlord]

The missing piece of critical info here is your gene CAG repeat number. This determines together with your TT and FT levels paint a more clear picture of your hormonal status.

Sadly testing gene CAG repeats is limited to research purposes at the moment.

A New Frontier in Diagnosing Low Testosterone: The CAG Repeat Game-Changer

Imagine going to your doctor, complaining of fatigue, low libido, and mood swings, only to be told your testosterone levels are "normal." Frustrating, right? Well, a groundbreaking study from the University of Sheffield and Barnsley Hospital might just change the game for millions of men...

www.excelmale.com

The Three Musketeers of Testosterone:

1. Free Testosterone: The maverick, ready for action
2. Albumin-bound Testosterone: The sidekick, also pretty active
3. SHBG-bound Testosterone: The lazy one, just hanging around

Only the first two really matter when it comes to how testosterone affects your body. But even then, something was missing from the picture.
[IMG alt="CAG Repeat.jpg"]https://www.excelmale.com/attachments/cag-repeat-jpg.48277/[/IMG]

Enter the CAG Repeat: The Hidden Player​

Here's where things get interesting. Researchers have discovered that it's not just about how much testosterone you have, but how well your body responds to it. The androgen receptor (AR), which is in charge of controlling this response, can vary greatly between men in terms of sensitivity. The secret? It's all in your genes, specifically the number of CAG repeats in the AR gene. Think of it like a volume knob for testosterone:

• Fewer CAG repeats = AR turned up to 11, super sensitive to testosterone
• More CAG repeats = AR with the volume down, less responsive to testosterone

 

[Jmoney]

@madman is the FT expert. I recall that he mentioned a bias towards lower values of the calculated FT for lower TT values. He can give you the best informed answer.
Is in your lab report any reference to the method used for calculating FT?

Not sure if it matters much whether your FT is 7, 8, or 9.

I usually get my labs at Quest diagnostics but this time since I was in the office they ran it in house. I didn't see a reference on how they got that number. I was only curious to see if they calculated it incorrect because each website calculator shows a different free testosterone when I input my total, shgb and albumin. Plus I wanted to make sure it's accurate. My LH Is much higher than it used to be prior to when I never took testosterone. It used to always be around 4.