Still on the fence, with more questions!

[Coltsblue1844]

My other threads have turned into a bunch of guys trying to prove who knows the most, so I hope you dont mind me asking a few more questions...Here goes...

In mid April, my Vitamin D was 23 and my B12 was 221...my total t was 252 and free T was 53...bodyweight was 280 lbs...

September 30, I had new labs (so 5 1/2 months later). At that time, I was 260 lbs. I had actually cut down to 252lbs, but ate at a small surplus for a while before my latest labs..as for my results, my Vitamin D was 30 and B12 was 265...my TT was now 315 and free T 62 (but if I use a more accurate online calculator, it was 68.7)

I had been taking 2500IU D3 and a multivitamin about 5x per week and eating too much junk, still...and hadn't trained in several weeks due to busy work/family schedule etc. I have a desk job 10 hours a day, Monday through Friday...

IF I am able to get down to 220lbs (I'm almost 6'5"), double my Vitamin D levels to 60 and B12 to 400-500...eat a more paleo/whole food diet and lift 3-4x per week with lots of walking (several miles per day at work) etc mixed in (now that fall is here and my schedule is more free)...

What would be a reasonable expectation of where I could get my TT and FT naturally, if I chose to NOT start the 100mg testosterone injections that my Dr prescribed? I've been pondering these things since I got my lab results this week. I filled my script for the 10ml vial of test, but have no problem leaving it in the cabinet for another 6 months if I dont actually "need" it. Sure my tests have been low for a few years, but I've been lazy and eating junk most of that time, too!

Thanks for your time!!

 

[madman]

My other threads have turned into a bunch of guys trying to prove who knows the most, so I hope you dont mind me asking a few more questions...Here goes...

In mid April, my Vitamin D was 23 and my B12 was 221...my total t was 252 and free T was 53...bodyweight was 280 lbs...

September 30, I had new labs (so 5 1/2 months later). At that time, I was 260 lbs. I had actually cut down to 252lbs, but ate at a small surplus for a while before my latest labs..as for my results, my Vitamin D was 30 and B12 was 265...my TT was now 315 and free T 62 (but if I use a more accurate online calculator, it was 68.7)

I had been taking 2500IU D3 and a multivitamin about 5x per week and eating too much junk, still...and hadn't trained in several weeks due to busy work/family schedule etc. I have a desk job 10 hours a day, Monday through Friday...

IF I am able to get down to 220lbs (I'm almost 6'5"), double my Vitamin D levels to 60 and B12 to 400-500...eat a more paleo/whole food diet and lift 3-4x per week with lots of walking (several miles per day at work) etc mixed in (now that fall is here and my schedule is more free)...

What would be a reasonable expectation of where I could get my TT and FT naturally, if I chose to NOT start the 100mg testosterone injections that my Dr prescribed? I've been pondering these things since I got my lab results this week. I filled my script for the 10ml vial of test, but have no problem leaving it in the cabinet for another 6 months if I dont actually "need" it. Sure my tests have been low for a few years, but I've been lazy and eating junk most of that time, too!

Thanks for your time!!

My apologies.

I replied to your PM.

 

[Vince]

When you post your levels oh, you should always post the ranges. I don't think how much you exercise or weight you lose, I think you still would have low T levels. Do you know why your testosterone levels have tank. Are you secondary or primary hypogonadism.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

When you post your levels oh, you should always post the ranges. I don't think how much you exercise or weight you lose, I think you still would have low T levels. Do you know why your testosterone levels have tank. Are you secondary or primary hypogonadism.

I'm honestly not sure!

A few years ago I first had my hormones checked, just out of curiosity. I had no symptoms at all. I was way more active, lifted weights and was 30 lbs lighter (but still ate and slept like crap) and my TT was near 500 (486) and free T was 96, SHBG was 29 and estrogen was 29.

Fast forward a few years of living a much more sedentary lifestyle and worse diet, lack of exercise such as lifting etc and it fell to the 250s for TT...

5 months later, I made the changes in the 1st post and #s have all begun going up.

I have no issues with erections, and have even been getting night and morning wood for a couple months straight, again. I'm mostly just low energy/low motivation etc...no real sexual symptoms (at 250s I had erection issues...at 486, I was a walking erection, looking at every hot girl that I saw, oddly enough)

 

[Vince]

There's a member here, that did exactly what you're talking about. He completely change his lifestyle and completely changed his testosterone levels, to the positive side. I don't have time right now but when I get a chance I'll try to find his thread and post it here.

 

[DragonBits]

I'm honestly not sure!

A few years ago I first had my hormones checked, just out of curiosity. I had no symptoms at all. I was way more active, lifted weights and was 30 lbs lighter (but still ate and slept like crap) and my TT was near 500 (486) and free T was 96, SHBG was 29 and estrogen was 29.

Fast forward a few years of living a much more sedentary lifestyle and worse diet, lack of exercise such as lifting etc and it fell to the 250s for TT...

5 months later, I made the changes in the 1st post and #s have all begun going up.

I have no issues with erections, and have even been getting night and morning wood for a couple months straight, again. I'm mostly just low energy/low motivation etc...no real sexual symptoms (at 250s I had erection issues...at 486, I was a walking erection, looking at every hot girl that I saw, oddly enough)

You don't mention your age, which is relevant, and you should put in ranges because just saying free T of 96 means little, and your E2 test, was it sensitive or standard?

I think you should also check c-reactive protein.

All that said, I doubt changing your body composition will have a big effect on total T.

It boils down to a cause and effect situation.

Did lower T cause you to lose energy, become more sluggish and gain weight?

ORE >>
Did gaining weight cause your total T to decline?

For me, I am pretty convinced my total T declined causing low energy and weight gain. I say this because after I lost weight, I went off TRT, got my total T back to where it was in 1995 (~350), but I started to gain weight back, and my total T wasn't higher.

I went back on TRT and now my weight is the lowest it's been for the last 30 years.

Here is one quick way to proceed.

Start the 100mg testosterone injections your doc prescribed, workout, lose the weight, when you get down to the weight you want, stop the testosterone injections, maybe inject hcg or take clomid to help restart, then see if you gain weight and what your total T is after a few months.

OR

Continue on with what you are trying, lose the weight without TRT and monitor your total T to see if it rises enough to help you.

My take is it's very rare to naturally get a significant gain in total T. A gain from 252 > 315 wouldn't be enough to be significant. IF, and it's a BIG IF, you total t continued to increase up to >450, then it would be significant. But I would be willing to take bets that wouldn't happen.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

You don't mention your age, which is relevant, and you should put in ranges because just saying free T of 96 means little, and your E2 test, was it sensitive or standard?

I think you should also check c-reactive protein.

All that said, I doubt changing your body composition will have a big effect on total T.

It boils down to a cause and effect situation.

Did lower T cause you to lose energy, become more sluggish and gain weight?

ORE >>
Did gaining weight cause your total T to decline?

For me, I am pretty convinced my total T declined causing low energy and weight gain. I say this because after I lost weight, I went off TRT, got my total T back to where it was in 1995 (~350), but I started to gain weight back, and my total T wasn't higher.

I went back on TRT and now my weight is the lowest it's been for the last 30 years.

Here is one quick way to proceed.

Start the 100mg testosterone injections your doc prescribed, workout, lose the weight, when you get down to the weight you want, stop the testosterone injections, maybe inject hcg or take clomid to help restart, then see if you gain weight and what your total T is after a few months.

OR

Continue on with what you are trying, lose the weight without TRT and monitor your total T to see if it rises enough to help you.

My take is it's very rare to naturally get a significant gain in total T. A gain from 252 > 315 wouldn't be enough to be significant. IF, and it's a BIG IF, you total t continued to increase up to >450, then it would be significant. But I would be willing to take bets that wouldn't happen.

TT is ng/dl
FT is pg/ml
Estrogen was sensitive
Age now is 39
Also just looked at my older labs again, SHBG was actually just 26. Had no symptoms at all, then... and my only symptoms now are energy/motivation, but that could be from B12 being so low, still?

 

[wondering]

B12 can contribute to energy. Take sublingual B12 and see. It is cheap and you really can't overdose (don't take a bottle mind you), But take a couple sublingual tablets every morning and see.

 

[Systemlord]

TT is ng/dl
FT is pg/ml
Estrogen was sensitive
Age now is 39
Also just looked at my older labs again, SHBG was actually just 26. Had no symptoms at all, then... and my only symptoms now are energy/motivation, but that could be from B12 being so low, still?

We mean ranges, an example is my FT ranges are 6.8-21.5 pg/mL and is based on age, the FT ranges for a man <30 years old goes all the way 26.5.

You're 39 years old and T has been declining for about 10 years now, your T is only going in one direction, testosterone doesn't increase as you age.

You can't have the optimal testosterone you had in your 20's in your 40's, it's just not reality.

 

[timk]

I’ve been of T for 6 months. When I first tested I was 180 and felt aweful. Got on T and it was amazing...for a while. After 3 years I decided to ween myself off and I feel fine. Morning erections, energy, and libido are great. In fact, I would say I’m better than I was on T.
However, I’ve got a strict diet, lift 6 days a week and do cardio. I’m focused on getting at least 7 hours of sleep and that’s been a huge help.

Just my experience in a nutshell.