Starting to feel better on higher dose?

[DS3]

I disagree and the science supports that an E2 over 60 is cardio protective and has a host of other benefits. That's what i strive for and feel best at. Especially your sex drive is better with a higher E2

Okay. Cite sources that support the notion that E2 above 60 pg/mL is beneficial in men. Not enough to disagree and say ‘science disagrees’ without citing research.

 

[TestOneTwo]

What do u mean passing my sweet spot to little to much test? Or to little ai or to much ai?

I mean the possibility of too much T. If that’s actually the case then you are likely to feel at first like meh, after that prob less meh, then all of a sudden YEEES! then yeah and later like please kill me all within 6-12 weeks or so. You might also still feel great after that period but your blood might tell a very different story. There’s more to it then just T and E2. Not saying your dose ist definitely too high, apparently there are people that feel best at even 200mg but I would go as far and say it’s likely over the top. In any event, you got to get labs done. The lack of complete lab work as well as those astronomical amounts of AI make me guess you are self medicating which is probably a slippery slope unless you really know what you’re doing and how to interpret all your values and that you can be certain that your medication is from a trustworthy source. Man, better try to go with a trustworthy TRT clinic and let them dial you in.

 

[antelopers]

I disagree and the science supports that an E2 over 60 is cardio protective and has a host of other benefits. That's what i strive for and feel best at. Especially your sex drive is better with a higher E2

I feel great at e2 above 60 aside from a little lethargy, but my gyno does not.

 

[sokaiya]

I feel great at e2 above 60 aside from a little lethargy, but my gyno does not.

and so people such as yourself have a genetic predisposition for gyno. The solution is not to take a pill that is completely unhealthy. Instead get the surgery and be done with it.

 

[Amanofgod]

I mean the possibility of too much T. If that’s actually the case then you are likely to feel at first like meh, after that prob less meh, then all of a sudden YEEES! then yeah and later like please kill me all within 6-12 weeks or so. You might also still feel great after that period but your blood might tell a very different story. There’s more to it then just T and E2. Not saying your dose ist definitely too high, apparently there are people that feel best at even 200mg but I would go as far and say it’s likely over the top. In any event, you got to get labs done. The lack of complete lab work as well as those astronomical amounts of AI make me guess you are self medicating which is probably a slippery slope unless you really know what you’re doing and how to interpret all your values and that you can be certain that your medication is from a trustworthy source. Man, better try to go with a trustworthy TRT clinic and let them dial you in.

Are u saying it dosent take more than 6 weeks?
I didn’t feel completely better just gradually over a couple week anxiety is fading?

 

[DS3]

and so people such as yourself have a genetic predisposition for gyno. The solution is not to take a pill that is completely unhealthy. Instead get the surgery and be done with it.

So no research supporting your claim then that estrogen over 60 pg/mL in men is healthy?

 

[antelopers]

and so people such as yourself have a genetic predisposition for gyno. The solution is not to take a pill that is completely unhealthy. Instead get the surgery and be done with it.

Already had the surgery. Despite what you may have heard, they have to leave some of the gland when you have gyno surgery, otherwise you will have what's called a crater deformity in your nipple that looks like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-8xhWKjs-pw/maxresdefault.jpg

So the problem for guys like me with the predisposition is if you continue to do something that caused or aggravated your gyno in the first place (for example, having an e2 above 60 if that is something that is an issue for you) you can redevelop the gynecomastia. Naturals are much less likely to redevelop gyno than men on trt or steroids.

So it's not as straightforward as just having the surgery and then you can ignore it. A healthy hormonal balance needs to be achieved or people predisposed to it will end up right back in the same boat if they just leave the underlying hormonal issue uncontrolled. Unless you're dialed in, it can redevelop quickly.

Besides, I have never seen any study showing that aromatase inhibition causes issues unless you tank estrogen. All the studies use huge amounts and crush estrogen nearly to zero.

 

[Gman86]

Already had the surgery. Despite what you may have heard, they have to leave some of the gland when you have gyno surgery, otherwise you will have what's called a crater deformity in your nipple that looks like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-8xhWKjs-pw/maxresdefault.jpg

So the problem for guys like me with the predisposition is if you continue to do something that caused or aggravated your gyno in the first place (for example, having an e2 above 60 if that is something that is an issue for you) you can redevelop the gynecomastia. Naturals are much less likely to redevelop gyno than men on trt or steroids.

So it's not as straightforward as just having the surgery and then you can ignore it. A healthy hormonal balance needs to be achieved or people predisposed to it will end up right back in the same boat if they just leave the underlying hormonal issue uncontrolled. Unless you're dialed in, it can redevelop quickly.

Besides, I have never seen any study showing that aromatase inhibition causes issues unless you tank estrogen. All the studies use huge amounts and crush estrogen nearly to zero.

Can I quickly ask u, how much did u pay for the gyno surgery, was it done under local anesthesia, how long was the recovery time, which doctor u went to, and are u happy with the results?

 

[antelopers]

Can I quickly ask u, how much did u pay for the gyno surgery, was it done under local anesthesia, how long was the recovery time, which doctor u went to, and are u happy with the results?

Sending you a DM so I don't derail the thread too much.

 

[TestOneTwo]

Are u saying it dosent take more than 6 weeks?
I didn’t feel completely better just gradually over a couple week anxiety is fading?

Anything between 6-12 weeks seems too be the period usually needed to determine the success of a protocol. What is success? When your'e feeling good and none of your blood values are playing up because of it. If you are only going after how you're feeling you might be ignoring the health aspect. Someone on a heavy cycle might feel great but is likely wreaking havoc on his body at the same time.

 

[DS3]

Anything between 6-12 weeks seems too be the period usually needed to determine the success of a protocol. What is success? When your'e feeling good and none of your blood values are playing up because of it. If you are only going after how you're feeling you might be ignoring the health aspect. Someone on a heavy cycle might feel great but is likely wreaking havoc on his body at the same time.

Agreed. 6-12 weeks is a fair time-period to determine how you feel on a protocol, as well as blood test confirmation that health parameters (lipid profile, hct, blood pressure, CBC, metabolic panel) are in range.

 

[sokaiya]

So no research supporting your claim then that estrogen over 60 pg/mL in men is healthy?

Plenty of studies out there, i don't have time to dig them up. If you want to have a low E2, be my guest. I don't live in your body. Just a quick search brings this up.

Here is another study where a group of men were supplemented with E2, their levels increased to 83 pg/ml and vascular function was again improved.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/hy1101.095006

 

[DS3]

Plenty of studies out there, i don't have time to dig them up. If you want to have a low E2, be my guest. I don't live in your body. Just a quick search brings this up.

Here is another study where a group of men were supplemented with E2, their levels increased to 83 pg/ml and vascular function was again improved.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/hy1101.095006

So what's interesting is in this article by Dr. Ramasamy, sex drive was found, among other outcomes such as mood, to be higher when estradiol was above 50 pg/mL. I question why he would prescribe 1 mg anastrozole to patients who have E2 levels at or above 60 pg/mL (when they are experiencing side effects) with these results. @Nelson Vergel Do you have any idea?

My use of anastrozole has been increased to a fairly steady at 0.25 mg once per week with my TRT now that I have consistently begun coadministration of HCG (500 units 2-3 times per week). HCG seems to make my estrogenic side effects (head fog, migraine, etc.) much worse than just using testosterone. I am questioning if HCG is actually the reason behind why I experience what I consider to be 'negative E2 side effects'. I can say that my E2 is 20 points higher with HCG use than without, and almost zero increase in TT is seen.

The role of estradiol in male reproductive function

Traditionally, testosterone and estrogen have been considered to be male and female sex hormones, respectively. However, estradiol, the predominant form of estrogen, also plays a critical role in male sexual function. Estradiol in men is essential for ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Abuser200]

Can I quickly ask u, how much did u pay for the gyno surgery, was it done under local anesthesia, how long was the recovery time, which doctor u went to, and are u happy with the results?

Nothing to do with this topic! But @Gman86 did you already switched back to injections? And how r u doing now?

 

[Gman86]

Nothing to do with this topic! But @Gman86 did you already switched back to injections? And how r u doing now?

Ya I’ve been back on injections since January. First enanthate by itself at 180mg/ week, and more recently for the past couple months my protocol has been 200mg of deca, 63mg of test, and 625iu’s of HCG. Feeling pretty good overall. Think I need to get my E2 up a bit more though. But overall pretty happy with the protocol change.

 

[Abuser200]

Ya I’ve been back on injections since January. First enanthate by itself at 180mg/ week, and more recently for the past couple months my protocol has been 200mg of deca, 63mg of test, and 625iu’s of HCG. Feeling pretty good overall. Think I need to get my E2 up a bit more though. But overall pretty happy with the protocol change.

How did you feel on the 180mg? Daily shots i guess?

 

[Gman86]

How did you feel on the 180mg? Daily shots i guess?

Felt pretty good overall. With that protocol I finally got my free T into the 40’s, and it made a big difference having a higher free T level. On the cream was the first time getting free T into the 40’s, and I felt noticeable mood improvements. So tried to get my free T into the same range on injections. Was able to do that with 180mg/ week, and the mood benefits carried over. So I learned that I do better with free T 40 or higher

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

For people who are high converters, it's helpful. I personally cannot do TRT without a once weekly AI dosage. Brain fog, lethargy, migraine, and other estrogenic symptoms are too extreme.

Lowering dosage does not help me either. I have spent years oscillating between 100-300 mg per week. Lower dosages does not mitigate these side effects for me.

how many mg a week now

 

[DS3]

how many mg a week now

I’ve settled in at 200 mg test weekly. Whatever side effects I get, bet it estrogenic in nature or something else, I can’t feel well on more than 200 mg weekly. Doing biweekly cypionate shots.