Sleep Apnea - Injections vs Cream

[Cooper]

Are injections more likely to cause or increase sleep apnea issues than cream?

 

[S1W]

Per usual, the answer is "it depends". However, with both it is dosage dependent and with cream, timing of the dosage matters, too.

When I apply cream in the evening before bed, my wife says that is when I snore the most. For me, twice daily cream seemed to exacerbate snoring more than any injection protocols I've tried. Once daily cream didn't have the same effect...but it also just plain didn't work for me.

 

[Willyt]

In my case, apnea appeared to be driven by water weight. I had gained nearly 15lbs on my initial Cypionate protocol, most of it fluid. I started experiencing apnea for the first time in my life. The apnea soon disappeared after I reduced dose and switched esters to Propionate (and later Enanthate). Very little water retention now.

 

[Gus80]

In my case, apnea appeared to be driven by water weight. I had gained nearly 15lbs on my initial Cypionate protocol, most of it fluid. I started experiencing apnea for the first time in my life. The apnea soon disappeared after I reduced dose and switched esters to Propionate (and later Enanthate). Very little water retention now.

What is your dose and frequency?

 

[Willyt]

What is your dose and frequency?

Original Cyp dose that caused the water weight gain was standard 100mg 2x weekly. I initially thought it was muscle until someone here explained that such rapid weight gain is mostly fluid.

Some guys seem more susceptible than others to the water gain. I should have added above that ester choice is only one factor. Injection frequency was probably another contributing factor as well as dose of course. IMO, Propionate is really meant for daily injections, but it was night and day versus Cyp 2x weekly.

My current dose and frequency is here

 

[Gus80]

Very good to know that you reversed the apnea with propionate. Soon I want to test this protocol, because I also have apnea and it gets much worse with Enanthate, Cypionate or Sustanon.

 

[Willyt]

Very good to know that you reversed the apnea with propionate. Soon I want to test this protocol, because I also have apnea and it gets much worse with Enanthate, Cypionate or Sustanon.

But to be clear, I did not experience apnea before TRT. Did you already have apnea pre-TRT? Did you put on weight with Enan/Cyp?

If so, switching to Prop may only help to minimize it versus exacerbating with the medium esters.

 

[Cooper]

That is why I am asking about cream. I tend to add more water weight with injections of any type vs cream which tends to lean me out

 

[Gus80]

But to be clear, I did not experience apnea before TRT. Did you already have apnea pre-TRT? Did you put on weight with Enan/Cyp?

If so, switching to Prop may only help to minimize it versus exacerbating with the medium esters.

I started trt at age 35 (42 today), had mild apnea and weighed 84kg. After the TRT my sleep got a lot worse, but I didn't do another polysomnogram, but I believe it got worse. And I gained weight in my chest and belly, despite diet and training. I also gained muscle, but I notice that the trt makes insulin resistance a lot worse, I don't know if it's because it reduces the shbg and/or because it makes the apnea worse. Today I'm 95kg, I reached 102 a few months ago. As I managed to reduce my bf, I stopped for a few months, started clomid and the Carnivora Diet and lost 7kg.
This is my dilemma, without replacement I lose weight faster, but I lose muscle and get very tired. With replacement I gain mass, but I can't lose weight (except with Ozempic), and I have better post-workout recovery, but sleep is worse.

 

[captain]

TRT causes central sleep apnea. Your brain is looking at CO2 or blood Ph. TRT is messing something up in that area. Something is going on that your brain is satisfied with your O2 level and your breathing stops or slows.

I have read that Buspirone may be used as a treatment for it. Buspirone changes something with CO2.

 

[camygod]

I started trt at age 35 (42 today), had mild apnea and weighed 84kg. After the TRT my sleep got a lot worse, but I didn't do another polysomnogram, but I believe it got worse. And I gained weight in my chest and belly, despite diet and training. I also gained muscle, but I notice that the trt makes insulin resistance a lot worse, I don't know if it's because it reduces the shbg and/or because it makes the apnea worse. Today I'm 95kg, I reached 102 a few months ago. As I managed to reduce my bf, I stopped for a few months, started clomid and the Carnivora Diet and lost 7kg.
This is my dilemma, without replacement I lose weight faster, but I lose muscle and get very tired. With replacement I gain mass, but I can't lose weight (except with Ozempic), and I have better post-workout recovery, but sleep is worse.

I imagine the carnivore diet would affect your sleep

 

[Gus80]

TRT causes central sleep apnea. Your brain is looking at CO2 or blood Ph. TRT is messing something up in that area. Something is going on that your brain is satisfied with your O2 level and your breathing stops or slows.

I have read that Buspirone may be used as a treatment for it. Buspirone changes something with CO2.

I didn't know about brupopiona, thanks. I've already experimented with DIAMOX, which is used a lot in Mountain Sickness and apnea too, from what I've read it has a similar effect of increasing CO2, but I wasn't successful. I don't have central apnea, just obstructive, verified in polysomnography several times.

 

[Gus80]

I imagine the carnivore diet would affect your sleep

Yes, I feel better on the Carnivore Diet, but it only has an effect on weight loss when I'm off TRT.

I'm going to test Deca 4:1 Enantato with the Carnivore Diet and depending on the results, I'll switch to propionate in daily microdoses.

 

[Gus80]

That is why I am asking about cream. I tend to add more water weight with injections of any type vs cream which tends to lean me out

Have you tried propionate?

 

[Canada878]

In my case, apnea appeared to be driven by water weight. I had gained nearly 15lbs on my initial Cypionate protocol, most of it fluid. I started experiencing apnea for the first time in my life. The apnea soon disappeared after I reduced dose and switched esters to Propionate (and later Enanthate). Very little water retention now.

I’ve read a few of your posts about TRT & weight gain and also TRT protocol change and feeling euphoric etc. It seems that we have very similar symptoms and experiences