Significantly weaker HCG in the summer from shipping?

[CSI007]

I am wondering about my last batch of HCG. It is from a known source (compounding pharmacy)

Has anyone ever had issues with their HCG potency because of the heat of the summer?

This pharmacy ships it overnight unmixed obviously.

Just curious. I am a little over half way through the bottle and I am just not feeling like I was a month ago. I have even switched to a new protocol of QOD of 400iu. I am hoping that my body is not - not responding to it any longer because I had such a good initial response to it.

I have a fresh bottle sitting here waiting to be reconstituted but I wanted to get some feed back before I throw a the rest of this bottle away.

 

[Vitamin_C]

This has been in the back of my mind living in Arizona where it gets scorching hot. A couple months ago my TT was in the 500's using my same protocol when previous lab draws had shown it in the 800-1100's. I suspected the compounding pharmacy I got it from gave me an older batch as they pre-mix it themselves. Only way to tell is to be on top of your lab work and have frequent draws and look at the data. I am now going with Defy for HCG .

 

[Vince Carter]

Supposedly....you can take your mixed HCG and test it with a pregnancy test. SOme say it works some say it's all a hoax.

 

[Vince]

hCG Expiration https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1364-hCG-Expiration

 

[Fireproof]

My understanding is that there is little concern of harm from the heat in the UNMIXED state. That's why most ship it that way and have you mix it at home, so you can then refrigerate.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

HCG is very sensitive (in the powder form) to heat. A hot truck can reach temps over 100 is many states. I would not be surprised if there is loss of potency.

 

[Fireproof]

Interesting. I stand corrected.

 

[JV63]

It may be just me, but it seems my results have not been as good since I have been using the hcg from Hallandale pharmacy that Defy is using.
I don't know if that is the same source that op is using, just my observation.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

This is a question that we have fielded multiple times over the years. I'm copying below a portion of a discussion that I had with Shaun Noorian, owner of Empower Pharmacy, on this topic. Also included is the attachment he referred to:

"In its lyophilized form, HCG is very stable. I attached a patent that tested the stability of numerous formulations of HCG under different storage conditions. You'll see that it is stable for weeks at 40 degrees Celsius, so it's safe to say that HCG being exposed at elevated temperatures for short excursions during shipping won't affect its potency."

 

[CSI007]

Supposedly....you can take your mixed HCG and test it with a pregnancy test. SOme say it works some say it's all a hoax.

I acutally did this last night after reading about it here and elsewhere. This morning my problem is now two fold. Not only is the HCG OK and I feel like crap but I am now pregnant on top of that! :/

Kidding aside,

When I say I feel like crap, I mean I am having some headaches again and hot flashes. ED is creeping back up and getting tired more quickly again.

My 368 test. blood test - I am really not sure I can go by that considering it was 3 days after aan injection and my first test was 24 hours after injection (568 of so)

I will get tested next week 24 hours after an injection to see if this really is not working anymore. If it's not, I guess I have either become desensitized to it (conflicting views on this I know) or something else is going on.

 

[CSI007]

This is a question that we have fielded multiple times over the years. I'm copying below a portion of a discussion that I had with Shaun Noorian, owner of Empower Pharmacy, on this topic. Also included is the attachment he referred to:

"In its lyophilized form, HCG is very stable. I attached a patent that tested the stability of numerous formulations of HCG under different storage conditions. You'll see that it is stable for weeks at 40 degrees Celsius, so it's safe to say that HCG being exposed at elevated temperatures for short excursions during shipping won't affect its potency."

Dr Saya,
Have you had any HCG mono patients that lost effectiveness after initial positive response to therapy?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I acutally did this last night after reading about it here and elsewhere. This morning my problem is now two fold. Not only is the HCG OK and I feel like crap but I am now pregnant on top of that! :/

Kidding aside,

When I say I feel like crap, I mean I am having some headaches again and hot flashes. ED is creeping back up and getting tired more quickly again.

My 368 test. blood test - I am really not sure I can go by that considering it was 3 days after aan injection and my first test was 24 hours after injection (568 of so)

I will get tested next week 24 hours after an injection to see if this really is not working anymore. If it's not, I guess I have either become desensitized to it (conflicting views on this I know) or something else is going on.

Congrats on the pregnancy 😉

This implies your HCG is still effective, but not necessarily to what degree.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Dr Saya,
Have you had any HCG mono patients that lost effectiveness after initial positive response to therapy?

"Lost" effectiveness is too strong of a term. However, I have seen that the testicular response to HCG monotherapy seems to vary over time (both up and down) similar to how the testicular response to endogenous LH seems to vary over time. There is no evidence of testicular "desensitization" at appropriate HCG dosages. Getting older (aging of the testes) will also affect the testicular response (to HCG or LH) over time.

 

[CSI007]

Thank you for the responses. I actually just started the HCG back in early april I believe. Within 6 weeks was feeling pretty good and my T was u from 260s to mid 500's. Before all of this I was never on any other stuff to mess with your system except chemotherapy about 17 years ago.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Thank you for the responses. I actually just started the HCG back in early april I believe. Within 6 weeks was feeling pretty good and my T was u from 260s to mid 500's. Before all of this I was never on any other stuff to mess with your system except chemotherapy about 17 years ago.

One important point I didn't mention in my previous message - HCG monotherapy will, over time, suppress your endogenous LH production (much like TRT does). Thus, early in therapy with HCG monotherapy, you will have the stimulation from the HCG +(PLUS) endogenous LH. However, once the endogenous LH production is suppressed (a couple weeks to a couple months), then you are stuck with ONLY the stimulation from the HCG. In these circumstances, typically an increase in HCG dosage is needed at this point to compensate (even to achieve equivalent results).

 

[CSI007]

That's good to know. Thank you. My LH was at .5 as of last test down from 3 months ago in the 1.5 to 2.5 range I believe.

Last week I switched to 400iu every other day (I just skip a day now with no breaks in between) from 500iu every 3 days. Think I should give the no protocol more time to work?

I am sitting here just sweating in the A/C and the hot flashes are getting pretty bad.

Is it possible that maybe 400iu is too much? Maybe these hot flashes are because my T is way up and thus my E is sky rocketing? I know all guesses of course until I get more blood drawn and find out for sure.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

That's good to know. Thank you. My LH was at .5 as of last test down from 3 months ago in the 1.5 to 2.5 range I believe.

Last week I switched to 400iu every other day (I just skip a day now with no breaks in between) from 500iu every 3 days. Think I should give the no protocol more time to work?

I am sitting here just sweating in the A/C and the hot flashes are getting pretty bad.

Is it possible that maybe 400iu is too much? Maybe these hot flashes are because my T is way up and thus my E is sky rocketing? I know all guesses of course until I get more blood drawn and find out for sure.

Yes, just speculating without lab results...certainly check them ASAP as they will offer insight into your levels/symptoms.

FYI - I typically prefer DAILY HCG for my guys on HCG monotherapy. Typical daily dosage ranges are 150-400iu. Keep an eye on E2 levels.

 

[CSI007]

Thanks for the info. I was thinking about a smaller dose every day. It kinda sucks because initially I was feeling great at the dosage an frequency so now I feel like I may need to readjust an wait and see. I guess that is the game with dealing with hormones huh?

As far as my E2 goes. I started out before HCG at around 6. When my T hit mid 500s it was up around 21 I believe.

 

[CSI007]

I will take another shot on Sunday (just had one this morning) and then test mid week right after my shot on Tuesday.

I will reconsider shots every day after I get those results back. I have to figure out what dose would work for me though. 400 sounds like a lot per week when added up but I have read that some guys take thousands of IU a week of the stuff.