Self administered lurker

[Pongo]

Hi all i've been lurking in this forum for nearly a year and a half now, researching info from all you very knowledgeable guys.
I'm 48 live in Chon Buri, Thailand, height 6'2'' weight now 240lbs was 270lbs before TRT. Was getting a little tired and head was occasionally foggy and even on a fairly good diet with light training found myself putting on more and more belly fat over the last 5 years, which was usual for me as i've always been a big fit sporty guy since school. Did a full blood screening and cholesterol, triglycerides, blood sugars were good! Then a personal trainer friend suggested getting my hormones and thyroid tested, as he has some older clients on TRT. Thyroid was good but TT was 230.

After some research I bought some HCG from my local pharmacy, was injecting 250iu EOD for 3 months and got me to 305. Not good enough I thought so time for TRT. BTW I tested my HCG with a pregnancy testing kit and it was very quick to pass with just a tiny drop of my HCG, so I know it was good quality stuff.
I bought a vial of Test Cyp and after 2 months dialed myself into a 850-950 window, then after reading the benefits of 2 injection every week split my dose into two. I kept going with the HCG at 500iu twice a week to preserve my family jewels.
Didn't know anything about E2 estradiol but my nipples were getting firm and fairly sensitive and after some research on here, you guessed it bought some arimidex from my pharmacy. Did bloods after first 3 months and E2 was 67, bought some Arimidex and thought 0.25mg twice a week would be a good start. 2 months later got very painful joints (shoulders and knuckles) felt like bamboo did bloods & was in single figures 8.7 - OUCH crashed E2!! Took 2 months of taking no Arimidex to get back to normal & and start being pain-free. I now take 0.25mg once a week and skip taking Arimidex every 4th week, this keeps me at 28-35 which feels good to me. Some people are very sensitive to Arimidex and i'm one of those people. BE CAREFUL with it as crashed E2 is a horrible experience.

Next hurdle was that I didn't know about was HCT hematocrit, mine was 53.9 which is rather high and heading for thick blood stroke territory. After 3 blood donations of 500cc and taking GSE Grapefruit seed extract my HCT is now 48.3 and going down, that took 6 moths to get that high and a further 6 months to get down to the level now of 48.3.

Still learning and still looking to improve my self administered protocol and finally feeling good, lost lots of fat and feeling strong again.

Please feel free to chime in on anything else I should be testing for

 

[Vince]

Welcome to ExcelMale. Do you have any chance to be treated by a doctor.

 

[Pongo]

Welcome to ExcelMale. Do you have any chance to be treated by a doctor.

No not in the area I live in. I hear there is a male clinic in Pattaya that specializes in such things but that is a flight away. From what I read so many doctors in 1st world countries are getting the protocol wrong, I would find it hard to trust a Thai doctor. The blood test clinic I use has a very experienced and helpful owner that has great advice and is very interested in my journey.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Have you read any of the books written by Nelson, Dr. John Crisler, or Jay Campbell? If you are forced to direct your own protocol, these books will ground you in this subject matter.

 

[Vince]

Have you read any of the books written by Nelson, Dr. John Crisler, or Jay Campbell? If you are forced to direct your own protocol, these books will ground you in this subject matter.

Keep It Up: The Power of Precision Medicine to Conquer Low T and Revitalize Your Life! Hardcover – October 8, 2013 by Florence Comite - I read this book a couple of years ago and thought it was really good. I read the kindle version.

 

[Pongo]

Sorry for the late reply guys, I couldn't sign in after the website got reconstructed.

Thanks for reading material & links.

I will be testing for E2, SHBG, HCT, Ferritin and Free T tomoorow. Will let you know the results in a few days.

 

[Pongo]

After 10 months of using Black Dragon Test Cyp @250mg/ml. I have switched to Test Enan300 from Munster labs @300mg/ml. The Cyp I used to inject at 0.8ml which works out to 200mg per week and I split that in two. So 0.4ml every 3.5 days, this was reliably putting me at 850-900ng/dl (280-800ref). The results in a few days will tell me if the Enan300 really does have more bang for buck, as I am injecting exactly the same to compare. The Enan is much thinner in viscosity and draws into syringe far quicker, plus the injection site has almost zero pain or discomfort immediately or day after injection.

 

[madman]

After 10 months of using Black Dragon Test Cyp @250mg/ml. I have switched to Test Enan300 from Munster labs @300mg/ml. The Cyp I used to inject at 0.8ml which works out to 200mg per week and I split that in two. So 0.4ml every 3.5 days, this was reliably putting me at 850-900ng/dl (280-800ref). The results in a few days will tell me if the Enan300 really does have more bang for buck, as I am injecting exactly the same to compare. The Enan is much thinner in viscosity and draws into syringe far quicker, plus the injection site has almost zero pain or discomfort immediately or day after injection.


View attachment 5510

Just for future reference I would keep the UGL steroid pics and lab names out of posts!

 

[Pongo]

The labs are in and i'm rather regretting my little experiment of letting my numbers get out control especially after such a great first 10months of smooth numbers! Swapping from the weaker 250mg Cyp to the stronger test Enan300 hopefully caused these numbers below.

HCT Hematocrit - 52.1% (40-50) was 48.3 two months ago
Ferritin - 19.6 (30-300) after 3 blood donations in 8 months
E2 Estradiol - 78.9
Albumin - 4.16g/dl (3.50-5.20)
SHBG - 9.51nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Total T - 1072 (249-836)
Free T - 40.3 ng/dL @ 3.76 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 915 ng/dL (125-412) @ 85.3 % (35%-66.1%)

I've had no Grapefruit seed extract for 2.5months, Which explains higher hematocrit. No Arimidex for 2months, which explains very high E2. With all that bioavailable test it's not a surprise that my lean mass and strength has go up in the last few months, almost like going on a blast cycle!

To get things back in control I will reduce HCG from 500iu twice a week to 400iu and with immediate effect reduce my Test Enan from (0.8ml to 0.6ml) in split in two injections of 0.3ml, this takes me down from 240mg/w to 180mg/week. I think 750-800 TT is a good place to be for me. May have to go on a EOD injection protocol if labs are not drastically better in 8 weeks.

I will start back on the Arimidex @ 0.25mg/week and get back to taking my Grapefruit seed extract. I will do labs again in 8 weeks. Almost forgot my fasting blood sugar has risen from having low SHBG from 89 to 106mg/dl (70-100) NOT good.
Another massive learning curve achieved and hours of youtube TRT videos are going to get watched and no popcorn for me with those glucose levels.

 

[madman]

The labs are in and i'm rather regretting my little experiment of letting my numbers get out control especially after such a great first 10months of smooth numbers! Swapping from the weaker 250mg Cyp to the stronger test Enan300 hopefully caused these numbers below.

HCT Hematocrit - 52.1% (40-50) was 48.3 two months ago
Ferritin - 19.6 (30-300) after 3 blood donations in 8 months
E2 Estradiol - 78.9
Albumin - 4.16g/dl (3.50-5.20)
SHBG - 9.51nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Total T - 1072 (249-836)
Free T - 40.3 ng/dL @ 3.76 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 915 ng/dL (125-412) @ 85.3 % (35%-66.1%)

I've had no Grapefruit seed extract for 2.5months, Which explains higher hematocrit. No Arimidex for 2months, which explains very high E2. With all that bioavailable test it's not a surprise that my lean mass and strength has go up in the last few months, almost like going on a blast cycle!

To get things back in control I will reduce HCG from 500iu twice a week to 400iu and with immediate effect reduce my Test Enan from (0.8ml to 0.6ml) in split in two injections of 0.3ml, this takes me down from 240mg/w to 180mg/week. I think 750-800 TT is a good place to be for me. May have to go on a EOD injection protocol if labs are not drastically better in 8 weeks.

I will start back on the Arimidex @ 0.25mg/week and get back to taking my Grapefruit seed extract. I will do labs again in 8 weeks. Almost forgot my fasting blood sugar has risen from having low SHBG from 89 to 106mg/dl (70-100) NOT good.
Another massive learning curve achieved and hours of youtube TRT videos are going to get watched and no popcorn for me with those glucose levels.

Of course your hemoglobin/hematocrit are going to increase as you increased your testosterone dose as 300mg/week is a whopping dose.

Your ferritin has crashed.....too frequent blood donations and you need to stop donating and start supplementing with iron to get that back up as low ferritin can cause many negative issues especially related to thyroid function.

Blood donations need to come to a halt otherwise you will never get your ferritin back into a healthy range.

Your SHBG is very low and more than likely you will need to inject daily or EOD and if you were only injecting 300mg (split twice weekly) that does nothing to help let alone injecting 150mg twice weekly (every 3.5 days).

Testing albumin was not really needed as on average the mean of most men is 4.3 g/dL and the overall Free T calculation would only be affected in presence of significant hypoalbuminemia hence why albumin it is pre-set in the Free & Bioavailable Testosterone Calculator:http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

Low SHBG men can usually get away with running lower TT numbers in order to achieve a healthy FT ( 2-3% of TT).

As oppose to high SHBG men who usually need to run higher TT numbers (some times well into the supra-physiological range) in order to force their SHBG down in order to achieve healthy FT levels.

Using the calculated FT yours is 3.65%.....well over the 2-3% range an can easily come down.

If you switched your protocol to daily or EOD (low doses) you could easily get away with running much lower overall weekly doses of testosterone.


Although your TT may not seem impressive for a whopping dose of 300mg/week of testosterone it is because your SHBG is low and your injection protocol is wrong for one with low SHBG but your FT is really high which is expected as low SHBG men can usually get away with running lower TT numbers and still have a healthy FT.

You need to look into lowering your weekly dose to get your FT down some especially having extremely low SHBG in your case and running such a high FT 3.65% your e2 would be through the roof and elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit would become an issue.

Forget worrying about your TT numbers as even though it is good to know your FT is what really matters as it is the unbound active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Running too high of a FT is not always best!

 

[Pongo]

Although your TT may not seem impressive for a whopping dose of 300mg/week of testosterone it is because your SHBG is low and your injection protocol is wrong for one with low SHBG but your FT is really high which is expected as low SHBG men can usually get away with running lower TT numbers and still have a healthy FT.

You need to look into lowering your weekly dose to get your FT down some especially having extremely low SHBG in your case and running such a high FT 3.65% your e2 would be through the roof and elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit would become an issue.

Forget worrying about your TT numbers as even though it is good to know your FT is what really matters as it is the unbound active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Running too high of a FT is not always best!

Thanks madman for the advice and i'll be sure to inject less more frequently.

Just for the record I wasn't on 300mg a week, I was taking only for the last few months o.8ml of test enan @ 300mg/ml strength vial which = 240mg per week.
The 10months before I was on 0.8ml of test cyp @ 250mg/ml strength vial = 200mg per week.
I am now on 0.6ml test enan which = 180mg per week.

 

[Pongo]

Quick update after 4 weeks of changing my protocol. I reduced my Test to 180mg per week (90mg x2 per week) & reduced my HCG to 400iu x2 per week. I am back on the Arimidex at 0.25mg per week. I have also started back on the Grapefruit seed extract for my high HCT hematocrit & have started taking Vit D3 5000iu & Calcium D-Glucarate to help with my low SHBG. Test & HCG are all injected twice per week.

I will get labs done again in 4 weeks time but i'm glad to say this reduction has left me feeling great & very dialed in! Very energetic in the gym, good mood, no brain fog & I will have to buy some tent pegs to keep the bed sheet down as morning wood is back with a vengeance!

 

[MarkM]

It’s good to see you are doing much better. I am a little surprised that you are feeling so good on two injections a week with such low SHBG. I would think you would have gone on ED or EOD injections. If you do that at some point you could probably lower your testosterone dose more and still have good levels of TT and FT and that would help keep your E2 and Free E2 in check.

Good luck on your new protocol. I hope it continues doing well for you.

 

[Pongo]

It’s good to see you are doing much better. I am a little surprised that you are feeling so good on two injections a week with such low SHBG. I would think you would have gone on ED or EOD injections. If you do that at some point you could probably lower your testosterone dose more and still have good levels of TT and FT and that would help keep your E2 and Free E2 in check.

Good luck on your new protocol. I hope it continues doing well for you.

That's good advice MarkM & I will probably have to go down the EOD injections road but for now i'm waiting with my fingers crossed that 8 weeks on 20% less Test then more labs will raise my SHBG enough to stay on a twice a week protocol.

 

[MarkM]

Well, I hope it works for you. Keep us posted on your results. Best wishes.

 

[Pongo]

Previous labs:
These numbers are from 2 months ago on 240mg total injected twice per week with 2x 500iu HCG twice per week & zero Arimidex.
E2 Estradiol - 78.9 sensitive. (high)
Albumin - 4.16g/dl (3.50-5.20)
SHBG - 9.51nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Total T - 1072 (249-836)
Free T - 40.3 ng/dL @ 3.76 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 915 ng/dL (125-412) @ 85.3 % (35%-66.1%)

Latest lab results:
3 days ago after 2 months on 180mg total injected twice per week. with 2x 400iu HCG twice per week & 0.125 Arimidex per week.
E2 Estradiol - 44.8 non sensitive (no time to get to sensitive test clinic this week)
Albumin - 4.47g/dl (3.50-5.20)
Total T - 980 (193-740)
SHBG - 14.92nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Free T - 31.2 ng/dL = 3.19 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 760 ng/dL (125-412) @ 77.5 % (35%-66.1%)
HCT hematocrit 51.3 (giving blood next week for the first time 6 months)

Feeling really good on lower dose T & lower HCG. The tiny 0.125 Arimidex per week has got me on the E2 sweet spot of around 50-/+ on the non sensitive test is perfect.
My super low SHBG has risen by neary 40% from 9 to almost 15 which is good news.
Lost 5lbs, lost 1.5in on my waist. Morning wood like a teenager, smashing the gym like a gladiator. Brain mood feels sharp. Will stick with the Vit D3 5000iu & Calcium D-Glucarate & Grapefruit seed extract for the next 2 months aswell.

Next 2 month experiment will be to keep HCG the same but lower T by another 20mg to 160mg per week & try 3 injections M/W/F instead of twice to week to help raise my SHBG some more. It's taken just over a year to get to this place! Phew

Thanks for the great advice i am listening to you guys

 

[fifty]

Question for all regarding arimidex. Is the logical reduction from .125mg twice a week just doing it once per week or .06 twice per week?

Pongo your detailed posts are very informative. Thanks for them.

 

[madman]

Previous labs:
These numbers are from 2 months ago on 240mg total injected twice per week with 2x 500iu HCG twice per week & zero Arimidex.
E2 Estradiol - 78.9 sensitive. (high)
Albumin - 4.16g/dl (3.50-5.20)
SHBG - 9.51nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Total T - 1072 (249-836)
Free T - 40.3 ng/dL @ 3.76 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 915 ng/dL (125-412) @ 85.3 % (35%-66.1%)

Latest lab results:
3 days ago after 2 months on 180mg total injected twice per week. with 2x 400iu HCG twice per week & 0.125 Arimidex per week.
E2 Estradiol - 44.8 non sensitive (no time to get to sensitive test clinic this week)
Albumin - 4.47g/dl (3.50-5.20)
Total T - 980 (193-740)
SHBG - 14.92nmol/l (18.3-54.1)
Free T - 31.2 ng/dL = 3.19 % (5.70-17.8)
Bioavailable T - 760 ng/dL (125-412) @ 77.5 % (35%-66.1%)
HCT hematocrit 51.3 (giving blood next week for the first time 6 months)

Feeling really good on lower dose T & lower HCG. The tiny 0.125 Arimidex per week has got me on the E2 sweet spot of around 50-/+ on the non sensitive test is perfect.
My super low SHBG has risen by neary 40% from 9 to almost 15 which is good news.
Lost 5lbs, lost 1.5in on my waist. Morning wood like a teenager, smashing the gym like a gladiator. Brain mood feels sharp. Will stick with the Vit D3 5000iu & Calcium D-Glucarate & Grapefruit seed extract for the next 2 months aswell.

Next 2 month experiment will be to keep HCG the same but lower T by another 20mg to 160mg per week & try 3 injections M/W/F instead of twice to week to help raise my SHBG some more. It's taken just over a year to get to this place! Phew

Thanks for the great advice i am listening to you guys

Great news.....you definitely have room to bring your FT down more if need be as you are still above 3%.

 

[Pongo]

Question for all regarding arimidex. Is the logical reduction from .125mg twice a week just doing it once per week or .06 twice per week?

Pongo your detailed posts are very informative. Thanks for them.

I'm very sensitive to arimidex & for the last 2 months have been taking 1/8 0.125 of a tablet once a week on a friday. My 2 injections were Monday & Thursday with 2 HCG injections on the same days.

I hoping that my new protocol of lowering T by 20mg & injecting 3 times a week M/W/F will eventually eliminate the need for arimidex.

 

[phxdiver]

Great info Pongo, thanks!