Say what you will

[Keepgoing]

[TD="bgcolor: #bec0bf"]	[/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #bec0bf"]	[/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #bec0bf"]	[/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #bec0bf"]	[/FONT] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]82[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]70-99[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]7-25[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]0.8[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].6-1.3[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]12.5[/FONT]​		[FONT=&quot]6-25[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]141[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mmol/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]135-146[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.1[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mmol/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]3.5-5.3[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]109[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mmol/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]98-110[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]24[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mmol/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]21-31[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]9.7[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]8.6-10.4[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]6.8[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]6-8-03[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.4[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]3.6-5.1[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]2.4[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]1.8-4.2[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]1.8[/FONT]​		[FONT=&quot]1-2-05[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]0.8[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].2-1.2[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]88[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]U/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]40-150[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]34[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]U/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]21-72[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]19[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]U/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]10-62[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]8[/FONT]​		[FONT=&quot]5-16[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.96[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]X10 6/uL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]4.2-5.6[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]15.5[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]13-17[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]45[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]%[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]39-51[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]90[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]fL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]79-98[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]31[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]pg[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]27-34[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]35[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]32-36[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]13[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]%[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]11.5-15[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]227[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]x10 3/uL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]130-400[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]28[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]30-100[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]124[/FONT]​		[FONT=&quot]53-331[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.4[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]%[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]LESS THAN 5.7[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]0.52[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]0-4[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]80[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]70-99[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]99[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ug/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]65-175[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.4[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]g/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]3.6-5.1[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]189[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]pg/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]60-190[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]488[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]240-870[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]113[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]61-1636[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]2.80[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mIU/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].9-12[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]1.52[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mIU/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].5-12[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]8.3[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mcg/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]4-17[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]7.72[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ug/dL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]4-11[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]0.88[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].58-1.59[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]4.1[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]ng/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]3.5-19.4[/FONT]
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]LESS THAN 10[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]pg/mL[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]11-44[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]34[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]nmol/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot]10-50[/FONT]​
[TD="bgcolor: #dcdcdc"]	[/FONT] [/TD]	[FONT=&quot]1.8[/FONT]​	[FONT=&quot]mIU/L[/FONT]	[FONT=&quot].4-4.4[/FONT]

5'10"
late 30's
200lb
resistance training 3 days a week
HIT cardio 2 days a week
Open to all your thoughts and suggestions. TRT starting soon, vitamin D supplement as well.

 

[ratbag]

I'd say your missing the RT3, FT3, FT4, both thyroid antibodies, Ferritin, Free T, E2 was that sensitive? Vit D + B12

 

[Keepgoing]

They failed to deliver the requested test, last time I'm using them. So this is what I have to do on. Any thoughts on what is their is welcomed. TRT starting in about 2 weeks. Yes about the E2, I'm one of those that has to use anti estrogens with TRT.

 

[Vince]

Do you know your protocol for your upcoming TRT. I would try to get the right sensitive LC/MS estradiol test for men.

 

[Vince Carter]

Secondary hypo you might talk to whatever Dr you're working with about a restart as the problem might appear to not be your nuts but your pituitary.

 

[johndoesmith]

They failed to deliver the requested test, last time I'm using them. So this is what I have to do on. Any thoughts on what is their is welcomed. TRT starting in about 2 weeks. Yes about the E2, I'm one of those that has to use anti estrogens with TRT.

Why would you have to use AI?

Your E2 is crashed naturally, if you're coming to that conclusion based on "estrogens", don't. That's a useless test for men and has no clinical relevance.

 

[Keepgoing]

We tried attacking the pituitary in the past, nothing pained out to be much.
AI is needed as I'm maxing estrogen naturally as the test shows. Adding testosterone multiples it significantly in me.
Protocal will be the same as the last few years. 200mg Depo Test, 100 Nandrolone, and .125 Arimidex E3D. HCG 250 iu Monday and Thursday.
Intrested in the “that's a useless test for men” commit. Please explain, always like learning.

 

[johndoesmith]

We tried attacking the pituitary in the past, nothing pained out to be much.
AI is needed as I’m maxing estrogen naturally as the test shows. Adding testosterone multiples it significantly in me.
Protocal will be the same as the last few years. 200mg Depo Test, 100 Nandrolone, and .125 Arimidex E3D. HCG 250 iu Monday and Thursday.
Intrested in the “that’s a useless test for men” commit. Please explain, always like learning.

Total estrogens is clinically insignificant for men, as it tells nothing of value.

I'm not sure how to explain this properly, as there's not a single TRT doctor that uses it.

Your estradiol, the hormone that matters, is undetectable. AI is a bad idea at your levels. You probably don't even need one.

 

[Keepgoing]

Ok, so when I developed high estrogen side effects every time I tried to cut it out, what was that? I've been happy with my doctors programing for the last ten years. I am overly cautious about developing gyno. What are are the blood markers and when should they be checked to prove the lack of need in an AI? I am reading as much here as I can. Between the volume of content and 180 degree view form my perspective its a lot to take in. My therapy also starts in a few weeks.

 

[madman]

Ok, so when I developed high estrogen side effects every time I tried to cut it out, what was that? I've been happy with my doctors programing for the last ten years. I am overly cautious about developing gyno. What are are the blood markers and when should they be checked to prove the lack of need in an AI? I am reading as much here as I can. Between the volume of content and 180 degree view form my perspective its a lot to take in. My therapy also starts in a few weeks.

Developing gynecomastia is not common in men on trt and even than it would only happen to the genetically prone individuals.

 

[Vince Carter]

OK its like this, ANY test for Estrogen/Estrone/etc etc is for females, EXCEPT, the (ultra) sensitive LC/MS/MS test which is for men. When the female tests are used in men they are unreliable and often overestimate levels in men.

Clear?

 

[johndoesmith]

Ok, so when I developed high estrogen side effects every time I tried to cut it out, what was that? I've been happy with my doctors programing for the last ten years. I am overly cautious about developing gyno. What are are the blood markers and when should they be checked to prove the lack of need in an AI? I am reading as much here as I can. Between the volume of content and 180 degree view form my perspective its a lot to take in. My therapy also starts in a few weeks.

That can be anxiety caused by thinking about gyno.

Unless you have tests from your time without AI showing high E2 levels I wouldnt add it in.

You're just going to experience the side effects of too low of an E2 level but like most guys on here, you're probably going to fall into the "I need AI because I feel funny" camp.

 

[Keepgoing]

Vince thanks for the explanation. I’ll get that ordered. Who knows how long that will take.
John water weight gain, round face, and chest sensitivity. As I’m not abusing the therapy, I interpret this as me being hyper sensitive.
Thanks for all the input, keep em coming please.

 

[Keepgoing]

Ok so 1 more week till I start. Thinking about trying Sub Qu injections into the abdominal for the test. I’ll still need to do IM for the nandrolone. So the plan is as follows
Monday 100 nandrolone IM, 100 test SubQ, .125 AI, 250 HCG.
Thursday 100 test SubQ .125 AI, 250 HCG
New labs planed for Wednesday of week five. So we will se about the estrogen then. And if the Vitamin D supplement worked. Thoughts and suggestions welcome, thanks.

 

[Keepgoing]

Started Monday with 100mg cyponate and 250units HCG Sub Q with .125 AI. Empower is having shipping issues so still no nandrolone. I’ll add it in as soon as it arrives. Next shots on Thursday.