Recent Bloodwork - Stay @ current protocol or increase?

[unknownwhom]

Hey guys. Recently I decided to lower my protocol from 140mg down to 100mg due to high e2 side effects. Below is my bloodwork. Note that on 6/29/23 was during the 100mg switch. I was only on 100mg at that point for 3ish weeks. Protocol is 50mg twice a week. Monday morning and Thursday evening. Shallow IM / 29 gauge 1/2 needle. During the 8/7 blood pull, this would be my trough, as it was done monday morning prior to next shot. Also, 8/7 would've been around 8 weeks at 100mg at stated protocol.

Total T of 687 and Free T of 110 look pretty good here. However, ive never really found my sweet spot yet for e2. I've read most try to target 25-35ish e2 range.

My question is, is e2 at 18pg/ml low here? Should I stay put and recheck in 6-8 weeks to see what it looks like again? Or, should i consider bumping my protocol to 110mg a week? Symptom/Feeling wise, I don't quite feel "optimized" so to speak. Right around shot day, I start feeling fatigued and out of it.

Thanks for any input.

	Reference	3/17/23​	6/29/23​	8/7/23​
Dosage		140mg​	100mg​	100mg​
Sodium	135-146 nmol/L	139​	137​	138​
Potasium	3.5-5.3 mmol/L	4.1​	3.9​	4.2​
Albumin	3.6-5.1 g/dL	4.4​	4.6​	4.8​
Test Total	250-1100 ng/dL	1282​	824​	687​
Test Free	35.0-155.0 pg/mL	222.6​	148.4​	110.8​
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL	<200 mg/dL	163​	162​	167​
HDL CHOLESTEROL	> OR = 40 mg/dL	65​	64​	64​
TRIGLYCERIDES	<150 mg/dL	47​	53​	57​
LDL-CHOLESTEROL	< 100 mg/dL	85​	85​	89​
CHOL/HDLC RATIO	<5.0	2.5​	2.5​	2.6​
LDL/HDL RATIO	Below Average Risk: <2.28 Average Risk: 2.29-4.90 Moderate Risk: 4.91-7.12 High Risk: >7.13	1.3​	1.328125​	1.390625​
ESTRADIOL,ULTRASENSITIVE, LC/MS	< OR = 29 pg/mL	54​	34​	18​
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT	3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL	4.9​	4.4​	4.6​
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT	4.20-5.80 Million/uL	4.89​	5.03​	4.95​
HEMOGLOBIN	13.2-17.1 g/dL	14.6​	15.1​	15.3​
HEMATOCRIT	38.5-50.0 %	43.7​	44.2​	44.7​
FSH	1.6-8.0 mIU/mL	<0.7​	<0.7​	<0.7​
LH	1.5-9.3 mIU/mL	<0.2​	<0.7​	<0.7​
SHBG	10-50 nmol/L		38​	42​
DHEA	93-415 mcg/dL		25​	83​
FERRITIN	38-380 ng/mL		77​	64​
MAGNESIUM	1.5-2.5 mg/dL		2​	2.1​
PROGESTERONE	<1.4 ng/mL		<0.5​	<0.5​
PROLACTIN	2.0-18.0 ng/mL		10.6​	8.2​
IRON, TOTAL	50-180 mcg/dL		156​	79​
IRON BINDING CAPACITY	250-425 mcg/dL (calc)		281​	292​
% SATURATION	20-48 % (calc)		56​	27​
TSH	0.40-4.50 mIU/L		3.47​	2.39​

 

[HSLD]

Can you describe what symptoms you were experiencing that you thought were the result of high E2?

I've been at this for years now and after a lot of trial and error my current approach is to simply ignore E2. Mine is regularly higher than yours. E2 should follow TT/FT levels...if one is high, the other should be too. If TT/FT are very low and E2 is very high, then perhaps there could be an issue worth exploring.

Regarding feeling like you're crashing as you approach injection day...I've experienced this too with 1x and 2x per week protocols. An EOD (every other day) injection schedule works best for me. YMMV.

 

[unknownwhom]

Can you describe what symptoms you were experiencing that you thought were the result of high E2?

I've been at this for years now and after a lot of trial and error my current approach is to simply ignore E2. Mine is regularly higher than yours. E2 should follow TT/FT levels...if one is high, the other should be too. If TT/FT are very low and E2 is very high, then perhaps there could be an issue worth exploring.

Regarding feeling like you're crashing as you approach injection day...I've experienced this too with 1x and 2x per week protocols. An EOD (every other day) injection schedule works best for me. YMMV.

I definitely had high e2. I have some gyno growth in my left nipple. Its not bad. But, there is a definitely a hard lump below the areola. Facial flushing. Anxiety. Bloat.

I have also crashed my e2 as well. Not a fun place. Thats what made me decide to go down to 100mg and not mess with AIs.

I have been thinking an EOD protocol. I could take .16mg EOD which would result in 112mg weekly. My blood work appears that I have room for it. My question is, how much is my blood results spiking after my next dose from my trough? Does anyone have any evidence on this?

 

[Systemlord]

My question is, is e2 at 18pg/ml low here?

For most guys, this would be a problem, but remember this is trough. 25-50 pg/mL is optimal.

I would have problems at a ferritin level at 64, I wouldn’t to feel good consistently. I have a history of iron deficiency, multiple times, and I don’t feel consistently good unless my ferritin is 80>.

I’m betting this is your problem and why you don’t feel optimal and also the injection frequent is too infrequent. Once you switch to a protocol with more frequent injection, and therefore more consistency in your hormone levels, higher trough levels, I expect to ferritin to continue to decline further.

 

[unknownwhom]

For most guys, this would be a problem, but remember this is trough. 25-50 pg/mL is optimal.

I would have problems at a ferritin level at 64, I wouldn’t to feel good consistently. I have a history of iron deficiency, multiple times, and I don’t feel consistently good unless my ferritin is 80>.

I’m betting this is your problem and why you don’t feel optimal and also the injection frequent is too infrequent. Once you switch to a protocol with more frequent injection, and therefore more consistency in your hormone levels, higher trough levels, I expect to ferritin to continue to decline further.

Thanks for the input. Starting Monday I’m going to go to an EOD frequency. I can either do 105mg or 112mg. I’m leaning towards 105mg now. Which would be .15ml EOD. And see what things look like and how I feel in 6-8 weeks. Thoughts?

 

[Systemlord]

Thanks for the input. Starting Monday I’m going to go to an EOD frequency. I can either do 105mg or 112mg. I’m leaning towards 105mg now. Which would be .15ml EOD. And see what things look like and how I feel in 6-8 weeks. Thoughts?

The frequent injections may decrease your estrogen, because androgens aren’t spiking high like on the larger infrequent dosage, so 112 mg weekly split up every other day.

If you don’t feel good, leading up to 6-8 weeks, it’s most likely going to be your ferritin levels dropping. If this comes to pass, start a low dose iron supplement, iron chelate, because your ferritin is on a downward trend and will likely continue on that path.

I actually started having low iron symptoms when moving from a twice weekly to every other day injection protocol. It’s as if my body changes gears.

 

[unknownwhom]

The frequent injections may decrease your estrogen, because androgens aren’t spiking high like on the larger infrequent dosage, so 112 mg weekly split up every other day.

If you don’t feel good, leading up to 6-8 weeks, it’s most likely going to be your ferritin levels dropping. If this comes to pass, start a low dose iron supplement, iron chelate, because your ferritin is on a downward trend and will likely continue on that path.

I actually started having low iron symptoms when moving from a twice weekly to every other day injection protocol. It’s as if my body changes gears.

Cool. 112mg weekly EOD it is. I got this in and started taking one an empty stomach in the morning:

Amazon.com

Will that suffice?

 

[Systemlord]

Cool. 112mg weekly EOD it is. I got this in and started taking one an empty stomach in the morning:

Amazon.com

Will that suffice?

I didn’t do very well on that type of iron. Whenever I see a 25 mg iron, it’s usually the gentle iron, GI friendly, which is why it’s lower absorption. I was on this type of iron in May/June because the vitamin Shoppe ran out of the iron below and my ferritin plummeted.

This stuff is way better! Night and day difference!

https://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/iron-28-mg-300-capsules/vs-1203

 

[HSLD]

I think EOD is worth a shot. I definitely feel best on that schedule.

As a side note, people often suggest that more frequent injections can lower E2. Given the same total weekly dose as a less frequent injection protocol, my E2 on more frequent injection protocols goes up.

 

[Systemlord]

I think EOD is worth a shot. I definitely feel best on that schedule.

As a side note, people often suggest that more frequent injections can lower E2. Given the same total weekly dose as a less frequent injection protocol, my E2 on more frequent injection protocols goes up.

The whole point of injecting frequently is so you can get away with using less T to get the same symptom resolution and therefore lower the estrogen, but in @unknownwhom case, his E2 needs to go ^^.

 

[HSLD]

The whole point of injecting frequently is so you can get away with using less T to get the same symptom resolution and therefore lower the estrogen, but in @unknownwhom case, his E2 needs to go ^^.

I’m aware of that theory. Didn’t work for me.

 

[madman]

I think EOD is worth a shot. I definitely feel best on that schedule.

As a side note, people often suggest that more frequent injections can lower E2. Given the same total weekly dose as a less frequent injection protocol, my E2 on more frequent injection protocols goes up.

Keep in mind that it is not a given that daily injections will result in lower e2.

When it comes to jumping on a daily injection protocol in hopes of achieving lowering e2/hematocrit many make the mistake of running too high an FT level which will have a significant impact on driving up your estradiol/hematocrit.

I would be more concerned with where your FT ends up on such a protocol

 

[unknownwhom]

I am going to give 112 mg EOD a try and see what happens. Given that my E2 is slightly low in the high teens and my TT and FT are around middle of the range, a 10% increase with spreading the dose can't hurt to see what happens. If bloods in 6-8 weeks are too high, ill come down to 105.