RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit High - Off TRT- Opinions?

[giannid]

So Defy got my bloodwork back on Friday and pulled me off TRT because my levels were high. I've been on .35 cc of Test Cypionate and 350 IU of hcg twice a week for 14 weeks. I'm really starting to feel good and was looking forward to staying on TRT for a long time. I'm actually kind of bummed that I have to come off but understand it's for the best. My RBC, Hemo and Hematocrit were high before I started from previous TRT treatment. I'm starting to think maybe Testosterone doesn't go well with my body. Crazy thing is I donated blood at the red cross 6 weeks before the blood work so I can't donate for a few more weeks. Defy says they will renew my script if my numbers go back down but I'm not sure what to do. They gave me a script for a therapeutic Phlebotomy but no local hospital system will honor their script because they're out of state. My primary care doctor told me to come off the Testosterone and retest in two weeks and see if it comes down on it's own. He wouldn't offer to give me a therapeutic phlebotomy. My primary Doctor is not a fan of TRT from speaking to him in the past. Looks like I may just have to wait a few weeks and go to the Red Cross and donate, then wait a few weeks and get blood work again. I'm pretty worried that my Test levels will crash while I'm off. For now, I'm just taking 500 IU of HCg 3 times per week. If you guys were in my shoes, would you attempt a restart with HCG, clomid and Nolvadex? Not sure what I'm going to do but I think I'm going to be battling this Hematocrit/hemo/rbc thing. I've already eliminated most red meat consumption and only eating it 2 times per week. Also taking fish oil. Not sure if I'm going to get these blood numbers to stay down

 

[buggies100]

Red cross does my theraputic phlebotomies with out of state script. It was written for monthly. I also had a high hct, it was 62+. So i was sent by my trt dr to get extemsive bloodwork done. 2 hematologist told me that i woild be fine up to 56 since all of my other blood values were good. They prefered it lower, like 52-54. I came off in mid feb and am currently doing a restart with clomid, about 4 weeks in so far.

So Defy got my bloodwork back on Friday and pulled me off TRT because my levels were high. I've been on .35 cc of Test Cypionate and 350 IU of hcg twice a week for 14 weeks. I'm really starting to feel good and was looking forward to staying on TRT for a long time. I'm actually kind of bummed that I have to come off but understand it's for the best. My RBC, Hemo and Hematocrit were high before I started from previous TRT treatment. I'm starting to think maybe Testosterone doesn't go well with my body. Crazy thing is I donated blood at the red cross 6 weeks before the blood work so I can't donate for a few more weeks. Defy says they will renew my script if my numbers go back down but I'm not sure what to do. They gave me a script for a therapeutic Phlebotomy but no local hospital system will honor their script because they're out of state. My primary care doctor told me to come off the Testosterone and retest in two weeks and see if it comes down on it's own. He wouldn't offer to give me a therapeutic phlebotomy. My primary Doctor is not a fan of TRT from speaking to him in the past. Looks like I may just have to wait a few weeks and go to the Red Cross and donate, then wait a few weeks and get blood work again. I'm pretty worried that my Test levels will crash while I'm off. For now, I'm just taking 500 IU of HCg 3 times per week. If you guys were in my shoes, would you attempt a restart with HCG, clomid and Nolvadex? Not sure what I'm going to do but I think I'm going to be battling this Hematocrit/hemo/rbc thing. I've already eliminated most red meat consumption and only eating it 2 times per week. Also taking fish oil. Not sure if I'm going to get these blood numbers to stay down

 

[Vince Carter]

ANy blood bank will do a phlebotomy it just costs you 30-60 dollars since they have to discard your blood, they can't use it. Try that. Dont go to quest or labcorp, this isn't something that they do.

I think it's odd to take you off, more odd that you're still at 56 having given 6 weeks prior...are you the guy that was running HCT @ 61 or 62 recently?

 

[Vince]

Sorry to hear about your high Hemoglobin and Hematocrit. You may have already read over this thread, if not , it may be helpful.
How to Manage Polycythemia Caused by Testosterone Replacement Therapy
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ia-Caused-by-Testosterone-Replacement-Therapy

 

[giannid]

My HCT was at 52.7 before I back in the end of November after being off TRT for some time. My level went down to 48.6 after giving blood, waiting two weeks and retesting on 1/18. My rbc, Hemo were also elevated. I live in the a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, so we have an elaborate hospital system. My wife called just about all the hospitals/clinics in our local area and none of them would accept the script from Defy. They said I would have to see one of their physicians to get a script for it. No one mentioned I could pay for it and knowing the hospital systems around here, they'd charge me $500. My doctor also didn't think I needed one so he just said come off of the Testosterone and retest in two weeks.

Around here we don't have any blood banks other than Biolife plasma centers and they also sait they wouldn't do it. I didn't think the Red Cross would do it as my account says I'm only eligible every two months. They do have an actual Red Cross Center that's in the heart of Cleveland. I haven't tried them but it's not very convenient for me to go there as it's almost an hour away. I might have time to go there if they can do it on the weekend or I just may wait as I'll be eligible to donate in Mid May.

Defy gave me a script to injectable B12 and I'm wondering if that had something to do with raising my levels up? I've been off of it for awhile but took it for a solid few months during my recent TRT.

I'm not happy with having to come off TRT. I would of liked if they maybe started me out on a lower dose or cut my dose in half until my HCT/hemo/rbc came down. I understand they do it for safety. I just figured getting your test levels stabilized was important. Now, I have to start all over again and I'll be off of TRT for a month or so. I'm sure my levels will crash here shortly.

 

[Vince Carter]

If you're stuck with donating every ~8 weeks, you'll only cut your HCT by about 3 points each time. and of course you're going to crash and have to start over. RC will do phlebotomies.

http://www.redcrossblood.org/hospitals/clinical-services

 

[KSPhD]

Unless you're anemic, which I doubt with your issues, I'd ditch the B12. Folate, vitamin B12, and iron play important roles in erythropoiesis. Erythroblasts require folate and vitamin B12 for proliferation during their differentiation.

 

[Vince]

If you're not that any meds that would interfere with eating​ a grapefruit everyday. I would try it.

 

[buggies100]

My original script was for every 8 weeks. I got a new script for every 4 weeks. Red cross accepted that. It takes a couple of weeks to get set up thru red cross. I pay $60 per visit. They hand me an envelope already filled out with an invoice and I mail a check from home.

While the time you get set up with a new red cross script may be about the same time as your next phlebotomy, at least you will be set up for next time. I call a central number somewhere and and they make the appt with me on the while on the phone. They then send my paperwork to the local red cross center.

See if Defy will write you a new script for monthly donations.

 

[buggies100]

No, that was me. We are down to 51.8 at this point



I think it's odd to take you off, more odd that you're still at 56 having given 6 weeks prior...are you the guy that was running HCT @ 61 or 62 recently?[/QUOTE]

 

[giannid]

I'm off of the B12. Last time I gave blood it knocked down my HCT 4.1 points. That still won't get me where I need to be unfortunately to get back on TRT. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Testosterone obviously raises my HCT a lot.

 

[giannid]

More bad news, called the red cross and they said they don't do a Therapeutic phlebotomy in my region. Closest place they do is a few hours away. Also, informed me if you need a therapeutic phlebotomy, you are no longer eligible to donate blood. Guess it's best to tell them you don't need it, LOL.

 

[buggies100]

Weird that Red Cross will not do phlebotomy in that region, must be some state laws. And yes, never tell them about TRT! I did not but they tested my hgb on site and it blew me out of the tolerable range.
I also seem to have RBC that go into hyperdrive with exogenous Test. I lived at 55-56 for near three years. Never had any issues, not did any phlebotomies. Worked out doing HIT cardio training and dragging tons of deer out of the woods, never an issue. That was 200 mg every two weeks. My issue came when I tried the every third day with 40 mg. Within a month I went straight to 883 total T and 62 hct. We are all different for sure. Sorry the phlebotomy is such a pain. I did one at home my self, well wife, when Red Cross was dilly dallying.

 

[giannid]

Buggies, did your doctor take you off TRT or did you want to come off?

 

[buggies100]

Giannid,
Coming off with such a high hct was a mutual choice by Dr and I. We are attepmting a clomid restart now. A month in amd total T was410, it has climbed. Time will tell

 

[1Draw]

giannid - Many of us here feel your pain. My HCT has spiked and have already had 3 donations this year so far. Very
weird to me since I was on pellets from Nov 2014 with another mens clinic before moving to Defy in June 2015. I started TCyp shots in Sept 2015 when my T levels dropped to 591.

I'm going to open a new can of worms here - Could HCG be causing the spike in HCT? I didn't start HCG at the beginning of pellets in Nov 2014. My HCT prior to pellets was 46.2. Around mid Feb 2015 I noticed testicle shrinkage so the mens clinic gave me a prescription for HCG I think was 350IU 2 x week. My HCT in Dec 2016 was 48 - Prior to adding HCG.

My HCT has been as high as 55.8 on 12/16 which caused me to have 2 donations before I could resume T shots.

So, I decided to look into the side effects of HCG. According to Everyday Health, side effects are headache, fatigue, depression, irritability, restlessness and serious side effects are blood clots.

Drugs.Com list of side effects is "Hematologic side effects have included the occurrence of arterial thromboembolism" This is listed on the very last page. There was one website that cited there was a case of a blood clot in the lungs of one of their patients.

For me, I'm off HCG for the time being and will retest in 6 weeks to see if in fact the HCG maybe a cause. Having to donate every 8 weeks is a pain in the butt!

 

[giannid]

Never heard that HCG could cause this. I hope it doesn't as I'm now taking 500 IU 3 times per week versus 350 IU twice per week. I would think Defy and the other TRT clinics would know if HCG would raise your levels.

 

[1Draw]

I would hope so but with several medical websites listing "blood clots" as a serious side effect so maybe there is a connection. Hopefully Dr Saya or Nelson can add to this. IMHO, blood clots is a thickening of the blood and that is what elevated HCT is I think.

 

[Flexapr]

Elevated RBCs, Hemoglobin, & Hematocrit on TRT? You likely have OSA ( obstructive sleep apnea).

So Defy got my bloodwork back on Friday and pulled me off TRT because my levels were high. My RBCs, Hemoglobin, and Hematocrit were high before I started from previous TRT treatment. I'm starting to think maybe Testosterone doesn't go well with my body. Crazy thing is I donated blood at the red cross 6 weeks before the blood work so I can't donate for a few more weeks. Not sure what I'm going to do but I think I'm going to be battling this Hematocrit/hemo/rbc thing. I've already eliminated most red meat consumption and only eating it 2 times per week. Also taking fish oil. Not sure if I'm going to get these blood numbers to stay down

Gang, read my reply twice and spread the word. I met with one of the best TRT docs in the USA in May 2016 and just Skyped with him last week again.

My RBCs (6.04), Hemoglobin (HGB was 17.5), & Hematocrit (HCT was 52.2%) were high after just 14 weeks of 125 mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week. He asked me why I was taking four weeks off from TRT and I explained that I was because of my aforementioned blood elevations. (Here's the kicker, and I believe it applies to most if not all of you.) He told me that I had OSA (obstructive sleep apnea), which is the clinical term for intermittently stopping breathing during sleep. SNORING is very indicative of this. The "bigger" you are, the more likely you are to snore and have OSA. OSA is analogous to "holding your breath" while sleeping, it causes your body to "adapt" in the same way adaptation takes place from regularly doing aerobic exercise, by raising RBCs, HGB, & HCT. TRT leverages this mechanism even further, putting your blood numbers out of range. (This is the main reason why Tour de France riders, for example, use testosterone. Richer blood yields increased performance.)

I guarantee many of you guys have OSA. Ask your wife, partner, or friend if you snore heavily or at all. Ask your doctor to order an overnight sleep study for you to determine if you have OSA or not.

My TRT doctor said "You have OSA. We're going to do something about that. You're supposed to be recuperating and growing while sleeping, and your OSA is ruining your R.E.M. sleep and elevating your values." 😴💤 He diagnosed me JUST by looking at those three elevated values, nothing else.

My doc ALWAYS wears a 10-year old TAP-3 dental (mandibular) appliance when sleeping. It juts one's lower jaw forward one or two millimeters, thereby opening up your trachea by positioning your soft tissue further away from the trachea's lumen (opening). My dentist is making a state-of-the-art, custom-fit "SomnoDent Fusion" dental appliance to KILL my OSA, to get my sleep uninterrupted, and to bring my RBCs, HGB, & HCT down to normal forever, TRT or not.

Best of all, these OSA dental appliances are covered by your medical insurance because this is considered a medical issue, not purely cosmetic or dental in nature. One of you feel free to post up a direct link to the TAP-3 device or the SomnoDent Fusion I'll be getting next month. I literally just joined this website to help give you guys some advice and cannot yet post links or images.

SPREAD THE WORD. AND YOU'RE WELCOME. 👌🏻😂👍🏻🇺🇸

 

[j4ever]

More bad news, called the red cross and they said they don't do a Therapeutic phlebotomy in my region. Closest place they do is a few hours away. Also, informed me if you need a therapeutic phlebotomy, you are no longer eligible to donate blood. Guess it's best to tell them you don't need it, LOL.

interesting, I have therapeutic phlebotomy done thru giveblood.org, and they do charge 150.00 bucks for the procedure, UNLESS you have polycythemia secondary to TRT ( and another condition that I cant remember ), because they told me that they more than likely can still use my blood, so when I go in I sign a form each time that states they are not charging me.