Question for those injecting daily...

[nakedjoe99]

I inject 200mg of test cypionate every morning at 5:00 A.M. I've gotten blood drawn at 2:00 P.M. and a month later at 8:00 A.M. at the same dosage and frequency which yielded the following results:

2:00 P.M.:
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 1237 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 38.4 pg/mL

One month later:

8:00 A.M.:
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 1034 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 30.9 pg/mL

 

[LerxstM4]

I inject 200mg of test cypionate every morning at 5:00 A.M. I've gotten blood drawn at 2:00 P.M. and a month later at 8:00 A.M. at the same dosage and frequency which yielded the following results:

2:00 P.M.:
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 1237 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 38.4 pg/mL

One month later:

8:00 A.M.:
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 1034 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 30.9 pg/mL

200mg or 20mg / every morning at 5:00 AM? Unsure if that was a typo or if you're on a very large dose.

 

[nakedjoe99]

200mg or 20mg / every morning at 5:00 AM? Unsure if that was a typo or if you're on a very large dose.

Yes, good catch, 200mg/week. Sorry for the confusion. Approximately 28.5mg/day

 

[AdamYoung]

Put it this way: the ester with the shorter half-life must be injected more often if the goal is to have fairly steady serum testosterone levels. If you inject T propionate only every four days then you'll have crashed your testosterone prior to each injection.

With daily injections, the only reason to use a short ester such as propionate is if some amount of serum testosterone variation is desired. I posted above suggesting that even propionate may not offer much variation, but since then I've acquired many measurements while using it and have also seen some measurements from others. These indicate that quite large daily variations are possible with propionate, up to at least +/-50% about the mean, more than double what is physiological. Because of this my daily injection is about half propionate and half enanthate.

Keep in mind that we are using bioidentical testosterone. If you are injecting testosterone cypionate then once the drug is absorbed the cypionate ester is cleaved rapidly, leaving testosterone that is indistinguishable from natural testosterone. The half-life of pure testosterone in serum is quite short, with a range of 10-100 minutes given in the literature. What I keep emphasizing is that with testosterone esters it is the absorption phase that is slow, with half-lives on the order of days.

Awesome Cataceous. Thanks for the details. That make sense why certain esters, with 7 to 8 days of half life works better. Subcutaneous makes it absorbs further slowly making it possible to take once in a week.

 

[AdamYoung]

Tats too much for me as i have low shbg. For me, 10mg per day is enough i guess. I am trying it out from today with 10mg test ED and 250iu HCG 3 times a week. Just in a phase of identifying proper dosage.

 

[Vince]

Tats too much for me as i have low shbg. For me, 10mg per day is enough i guess. I am trying it out from today with 10mg test ED and 250iu HCG 3 times a week. Just in a phase of identifying proper dosage.

Some low shbg guys don’t handle hcg well. They do a lower dose. I would first try 100 iu 3xweekly.

 

[AdamYoung]

I read that minimum 250iu is the optimal dosage for it to work. So i was under the impression that 250iu is bare mininum. Ok i will try lower HCG dosage then. Do u think 100iu 3x week will help to restore my testicles from shrinking? Thanks

 

[Vince]

I read that minimum 250iu is the optimal dosage for it to work. So i was under the impression that 250iu is bare mininum. Ok i will try lower HCG dosage then. Do u think 100iu 3x week will help to restore my testicles from shrinking? Thanks

You will know in about 2 to 3 weeks. If not restored increase dose gradually.

 

[AdamYoung]

You will know in about 2 to 3 weeks. If not restored increase dose gradually.

Thanks Vince. Also, my testicles are only working say 30% as i am primary hypogonadism. My LH n FSH were above the normal range and my test was just below normal range. So i figured some part of my testicles are working so hcg will help to keep it running if not restore fertility. My sperm count was also low thats another concern so i decided to use bit higher range of hcg 250iu 3 times a week..
I am also planning to test HMG or FSH along with HCG+ Test to see if it can improve fertility but since i am in canada its hard to get fsh or hmg prescription.

 

[BillyJ03z]

I've injected both Cyp and Prop daily at the same amount (I've experimented with each for several months) and astonishingly my TT and FT were alot higher with daily Cyp injects when testing at trough the following day... TT with Cyp was 735 and TT with Prop was 502, FT with Cyp was 25.5 and FT with Prop was 18.2 *These were labcorp ranges.

 

[Cataceous]

I've injected both Cyp and Prop daily at the same amount (I've experimented with each for several months) and astonishingly my TT and FT were alot higher with daily Cyp injects when testing at trough the following day... TT with Cyp was 735 and TT with Prop was 502, FT with Cyp was 25.5 and FT with Prop was 18.2 *These were labcorp ranges.

This is as expected. The opposite would be astonishing. What were the doses involved? If you measured peaks around 2-4 hours post-injection you would find the opposite effect, with propionate levels much higher.

 

[BillyJ03z]

This is as expected. The opposite would be astonishing. What were the doses involved? If you measured peaks around 2-4 hours post-injection you would find the opposite effect, with propionate levels much higher.

Cyp @ 20mg minus ester = 14mg pure test and Prop @ 20mg minus ester = 16mg pure test...

I'm wondering if I should inject at night before bed to take advantage of the Cyp peak in the morning/day time hours when I'm active/working out....

 

[Cataceous]

Cyp @ 20mg minus ester = 14mg pure test and Prop @ 20mg minus ester = 16mg pure test...

I'm wondering if I should inject at night before bed to take advantage of the Cyp peak in the morning/day time hours when I'm active/working out....

The propionate dose is closer to 17 mg of testosterone. If your SHBG didn't change between measurements then you can make some predictions. Cypionate is assumed to result in pretty constant serum levels with daily injections, so the measurement of 735 ng/dL is taken as the average response to 14 mg of testosterone released over one day. Prorating the result for 16.74 mg testosterone from propionate yields an average serum level of about 880 ng/dL. Therefore your trough measurement of 502 ng/dL deviates from the mean by 43%. This is in line with what I have seen, and is more variation than is seen in natural men, who top out around 20-25% above and below the mean. BTW, your predicted peak serum level on propionate is over 1,200 ng/dL.

I would take some more measurements before assuming the post-injection peak with cypionate is more than 8 hours. It could be much less. And regardless, the differences between peaks and troughs with daily cypionate is probably a few percent at most.

 

[slicktop]

I am no expert but ester with shorter half life is better for daily injection right? Or what ever the half life of natural testosterone which i believe is 2 to 4 hrs.

Perhaps it's semantics, but I think it's important to clarify: esters with shorter half lifes aren't necessarily *better* for daily injections, but that more frequent injections are necessary for them. You can still successfully do daily shots on cypionate, for example. The only difference is the ester takes longer to be cleaved off, so you have more "unavailable" test in your system at any given time with daily cypionate shots, and that's not a bad thing. It's almost a logistics issue. Think about it like you're running a central distribution for... I don't know, toilet paper. With daily cypionate injections, you're giving yourself a large warehouse and retailers can get what they need at any time, because you keep a massive amount of stock. If you miss one delivery, it's not a big deal because you have plenty on hand. With enanthate, you have a much smaller warehouse and you need to have more frequent deliveries to replenish your stock so you always have it on hand for your retail customers to pick it up when they need it. The end result is not "better" toilet paper, and the toilet paper isn't expiring by being in your warehouse, but depending on how you're set up, it may be better for you to have a more streamlined operation and operate that smaller, less expensive warehouse.

 

[BillyJ03z]

The propionate dose is closer to 17 mg of testosterone. If your SHBG didn't change between measurements then you can make some predictions. Cypionate is assumed to result in pretty constant serum levels with daily injections, so the measurement of 735 ng/dL is taken as the average response to 14 mg of testosterone released over one day. Prorating the result for 16.74 mg testosterone from propionate yields an average serum level of about 880 ng/dL. Therefore your trough measurement of 502 ng/dL deviates from the mean by 43%. This is in line with what I have seen, and is more variation than is seen in natural men, who top out around 20-25% above and below the mean. BTW, your predicted peak serum level on propionate is over 1,200 ng/dL.

I would take some more measurements before assuming the post-injection peak with cypionate is more than 8 hours. It could be much less. And regardless, the differences between peaks and troughs with daily cypionate is probably a few percent at most.

I may go to the Cyp/Prop blend 160/40 that is available to me with the daily injects... I just wish my pharmacy had 100/100 cyp/prop blend, that would be ideal for daily injects...

 

[Cataceous]

I may go to the Cyp/Prop blend 160/40 that is available to me with the daily injects... I just wish my pharmacy had 100/100 cyp/prop blend, that would be ideal for daily injects...

If you can get both drugs separately then it's pretty easy to make your own blend.

 

[BillyJ03z]

If you can get both drugs separately then it's pretty easy to make your own blend.

Yeah, I've done it before making my own, but I just received my 2 vials of Cyp and my Dr. wont fill anything else until they are gone...