Question for those injecting daily...

[jth0524]

Question for those using daily injections of testosterone cypionate:

I know there’s going to be very little variation in blood levels on a daily injection protocol. I’m curious though about the peak on a daily protocol. Would it be 12 hours post injection? If so, I could possibly see a small benefit to injecting in the evening so one would have a peak the following morning. Does anyone know or have an idea how many hours post injection it would peak on a daily protocol? Thanks

 

[Systemlord]

I've been on daily dosing for less than 3 weeks and I feel far more stable, sure there are minor fluctuations at night, by morning clearly has my cortisol rises a little which TRT seems to dampen almost immediately after my morning injection.

This is what I associate the good feeling I get right after an injection, cortisol drops and calmness comes over me.

My injections when starting a new protocol seem to make me more sleepy within 10 minutes which is nice, so perhaps this could help you sleep at night. We know better sleep is going to accelerate recovery more than anything.

I don't really have an answer to your question about peaking on a daily protocol.

 

[Vince Carter]

Ive thought of testing in a peak just for curiosity and I'd do that 4-6hrs, I use 16mg of Cyp.

 

[Vince]

When you're injecting testosterone daily I don't think it really matters if you inject in the morning or night. If you're levels vary it can't be by much, at least not enough that you would feel a difference.

 

[DragonBits]

Ive thought of testing in a peak just for curiosity and I'd do that 4-6hrs, I use 16mg of Cyp.

When I check the pharmacology of test cyp, it says an injection peaks between 1-2 hours.

I doubt I could feel it, I didn't really feel a difference between 1300 and 700 ng/dl. Any thing I felt was be very subtle and could have been caused by nearly anything, not obvious at all.

 

[seb288]

When I check the pharmacology of test cyp, it says an injection peaks between 1-2 hours.

I doubt I could feel it, I didn't really feel a difference between 1300 and 700 ng/dl. Any thing I felt was be very subtle and could have been caused by nearly anything, not obvious at all.

Where does it say that? I read everywhere that it peaks 24-48h. If injecting daily that translates to about 12h. How on earth would it be 1-2h?!

Regarding feeling, if 700 and 1300 feel the same, 700 is healthier (although free T is more relevant) so might be a better protocol to keep between 700 and 900.

 

[DragonBits]

Where does it say that? I read everywhere that it peaks 24-48h. If injecting daily that translates to about 12h. How on earth would it be 1-2h?!

Regarding feeling, if 700 and 1300 feel the same, 700 is healthier (although free T is more relevant) so might be a better protocol to keep between 700 and 900.

You are right and I don't know what I was looking at that made me say 1-2 hours for peak T after injection of test cyp. The only thing I know that peaks in a few hours are things like Fortesta gel and nasal sprays. Maybe a T cream, and especially if you use it with DMSO.


The only thing I can think is I mean to say 1-2 days and instead typed 1-2 hours.

I still don't feel the difference between 700 and 1300 total t levels, if there is anything happening it's very subtle.

Sorry about that, thanks for catching it.

 

[Henry]

I've got a question about test C and E with a daily protocol. Doesn't the ester 'build up' in your bloodstream eventually so would there be a peak? I know test suspension or androgel peaks in a couple of hours but there is no ester.

Isn't the ester the thing that gives it the half life of 1-2 weeks (or something like that)?

 

[Systemlord]

I've got a question about test C and E with a daily protocol. Doesn't the ester 'build up' in your bloodstream eventually so would there be a peak? I know test suspension or androgel peaks in a couple of hours but there is no ester.

Isn't the ester the thing that gives it the half life of 1-2 weeks (or something like that)?

Half lives of medications. Most underrated aspect of TRT

 

[Cataceous]

I've got a question about test C and E with a daily protocol. Doesn't the ester 'build up' in your bloodstream eventually so would there be a peak? I know test suspension or androgel peaks in a couple of hours but there is no ester.

Isn't the ester the thing that gives it the half life of 1-2 weeks (or something like that)?

If you'd like to visualize what's going on then play around with this site. Some of the constants they use are wrong, and the model is simplistic, but it still gives an idea of what's happening. For example, entering 10 mg per day of T cypionate yields this plot:

 

[Bentiger07]

For DAILY INJECTORS, is it clear when they peak and trough? I've heard different things. Although unsure, I assume a person still troughs right before next injection. From 1 source I read, I thought a person peaks right after the injection but from here, I'm reading the peak is at 12 hrs?

Last time I drew blood, I did it before my next daily injection so I assume that is my trough. Looking to do my next blood draw at peak.

I know from multiple sources that for weekly & 2x a week users, the peak is 24-48 hrs and the trough is before next injection.

 

[wondering]

Daily injections will result in pretty steady state. The half-life is about a week, but SHBG will determine the real rate. But even low SHBG guys who do daily injections will be pretty much level.

 

[Cataceous]

Daily injections will result in pretty steady state. The half-life is about a week, but SHBG will determine the real rate. But even low SHBG guys who do daily injections will be pretty much level.

SHBG does not determine the half-life. The half-life is governed by the rate of aborption of the testosterone ester from the injected depot.

Daily injections of long-lived esters such as enanthate, cypionate, etc. do result in very steady serum testosterone levels. The situation with testosterone propionate is less clear. Extrapolating from single-injection data suggests pretty steady levels too, but there is some anecdotal evidence indicating modest oscillations are possible.

 

[BillyJ03z]

SHBG does not determine the half-life. The half-life is governed by the rate of aborption of the testosterone ester from the injected depot.

I'm confused now as I've read from multiple reputable sources that SHBG does in fact play a big role in the absorption/clearance of Testosterone regardless of the esters.... Ex. a normal SHBG guy would be able to get away with E3d or 4d of test Cyp injects as their trough would not be drastic from peak, unlike a low SHBG guy where he excretes/clears the test at an incredibly faster rate hence the need for more frequent injections.

thoughts?

 

[BillyJ03z]

I've got a question about test C and E with a daily protocol. Doesn't the ester 'build up' in your bloodstream eventually so would there be a peak?

Nobody gave an answer to this question... would the long term esters continue to build on top of each other (a continuous overlay of sorts) which equal a continuous peak if the ed inject protocol remained exactly the same... Any thoughts?

 

[fifty]

No

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[Cataceous]

I'm confused now as I've read from multiple reputable sources that SHBG does in fact play a big role in the absorption/clearance of Testosterone regardless of the esters.... Ex. a normal SHBG guy would be able to get away with E3d or 4d of test Cyp injects as their trough would not be drastic from peak, unlike a low SHBG guy where he excretes/clears the test at an incredibly faster rate hence the need for more frequent injections.

thoughts?

SHBG plays an important role in the metabolism of testosterone after it's freed from the ester. Prior to that, SHBG has no influence on the rate of absorption of the ester. See if this fluid flow analogy makes it clearer. The absorption rate is what determines the apparent half-life of the ester, because it is reflected in serum levels of testosterone over time. On average the total consumption/excretion rate of testosterone must match the rate of absorption, so it is effectively independent of SHBG. Thus, with respect to TRT, the main points are:
• Ester absorption rate determines the effective half-life, which is not affected by SHBG
• The ester absorption rate sets free testosterone
• SHBG and free testosterone determine where total testosterone ends up

A thought experiment I've discussed previously is to consider two twins, identical except for SHBG, one low, one high. With the twins on TRT at the same doses we expect to observe that they have identical free testosterone levels, while the low-SHBG twin has proportionally lower total serum testosterone throughout each injection cycle. This means that the peak-trough ratio is the same for each twin; the low-SHBG twin clears testosterone at the same rate as his high-SHBG twin.

 

[Tman]

I'm confused now as I've read from multiple reputable sources that SHBG does in fact play a big role in the absorption/clearance of Testosterone regardless of the esters.... Ex. a normal SHBG guy would be able to get away with E3d or 4d of test Cyp injects as their trough would not be drastic from peak, unlike a low SHBG guy where he excretes/clears the test at an incredibly faster rate hence the need for more frequent injections.

thoughts?

 

[AdamYoung]

I am no expert but ester with shorter half life is better for daily injection right? Or what ever the half life of natural testosterone which i believe is 2 to 4 hrs.
May be testicles produces testosterone through out the day i believe and we cant mimic it so closest we can achieve is through daily injection. Got it.

 

[Cataceous]

I am no expert but ester with shorter half life is better for daily injection right? Or what ever the half life of natural testosterone which i believe is 2 to 4 hrs.
May be testicles produces testosterone through out the day i believe and we cant mimic it so closest we can achieve is through daily injection. Got it.

Put it this way: the ester with the shorter half-life must be injected more often if the goal is to have fairly steady serum testosterone levels. If you inject T propionate only every four days then you'll have crashed your testosterone prior to each injection.

With daily injections, the only reason to use a short ester such as propionate is if some amount of serum testosterone variation is desired. I posted above suggesting that even propionate may not offer much variation, but since then I've acquired many measurements while using it and have also seen some measurements from others. These indicate that quite large daily variations are possible with propionate, up to at least +/-50% about the mean, more than double what is physiological. Because of this my daily injection is about half propionate and half enanthate.

Keep in mind that we are using bioidentical testosterone. If you are injecting testosterone cypionate then once the drug is absorbed the cypionate ester is cleaved rapidly, leaving testosterone that is indistinguishable from natural testosterone. The half-life of pure testosterone in serum is quite short, with a range of 10-100 minutes given in the literature. What I keep emphasizing is that with testosterone esters it is the absorption phase that is slow, with half-lives on the order of days.