Protocol switch results - 200mg/wk to 20mg/day Test Cyp

[lowtdunce]

I was hesitant to change anything because I've been doing very well for a long time now on 200mg a week with 400iu of HCG every other day. The one complaint was constantly rising hematocrit. Donating every 2-3 months doesn't bother me but after one bad experience at the red cross I developed a bit of a white coat syndrome... I'd end up getting a high pulse rate and blood pressure just when I go in and got denied 3 different times. Frustrating because I'm normal otherwise.

That led me to get setup to have blood taken by my doctor but cost me around $170 each visit and that recently increased. SO... decided to try the daily dosing to see if it would work for me. This is only one set of labs into it but it looks promising and if anything I might actually be feeling a bit better than when on 200mg a week. No symptoms of low ferritin and haven't had it checked in a couple years but getting away from frequent donations is probably best long term. I had ferritin in the high 20s early on in my TRT journey.. probably after 1-2 donations.

This is with no donations and about a month between labs.

Last labs on 200mg/wk trough day
RBC: 6.10
HCT: 52.2
Hemo: 17.9
E2 sensitive: 15.5 (8-35)
Total T: 757
Free T: 24.2 (6.8-21.5)

Labs on 20mg a day right b4 next injection -kept the 400iu of HCG every other day
RBC: 6.13
HCT: 51.8
Hemo: 17.1
E2 Sensitive: 48 (<29)
Total T: 802
Free T: 174.3 (35-155)

Had I continued with 200mg a week I would have cleared a HCT of 53 I'm sure based on my history. E2 might be a touch high but I'm not noticing it. Total right about the same. Looks like maybe I could nudge down from 20mg or consider a tiny amount of AI. Or maybe reduce the HCG a bit.

I do have some numbers for peak while on 200mg a week and my total is >1500 with E2 @ 60 and Free T over 30.. the kind of numbers you would expect at that level I suppose.

Not really posting for advice, just more of an FYI - here's what I learned kind of thing.

Because I like to have my cake and eat it too I will run this 20mg a day for awhile to see if the effect on HCT is real. Ideally it is but then I'd also like to go back to 200mg a week for short periods when I really want to get after it in the gym - otherwise I feel like its a waste unless I just need that to feel my best, which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[madman]

I was hesitant to change anything because I've been doing very well for a long time now on 200mg a week with 400iu of HCG every other day. The one complaint was constantly rising hematocrit. Donating every 2-3 months doesn't bother me but after one bad experience at the red cross I developed a bit of a white coat syndrome... I'd end up getting a high pulse rate and blood pressure just when I go in and got denied 3 different times. Frustrating because I'm normal otherwise.

That led me to get setup to have blood taken by my doctor but cost me around $170 each visit and that recently increased. SO... decided to try the daily dosing to see if it would work for me. This is only one set of labs into it but it looks promising and if anything I might actually be feeling a bit better than when on 200mg a week. No symptoms of low ferritin and haven't had it checked in a couple years but getting away from frequent donations is probably best long term. I had ferritin in the high 20s early on in my TRT journey.. probably after 1-2 donations.

This is with no donations and about a month between labs.

Last labs on 200mg/wk trough day
RBC: 6.10
HCT: 52.2
Hemo: 17.9
E2 sensitive: 15.5 (8-35)
Total T: 757
Free T: 24.2 (6.8-21.5)

Labs on 20mg a day right b4 next injection -kept the 400iu of HCG every other day
RBC: 6.13
HCT: 51.2
Hemo: 17.1
E2 Sensitive: 48 (<29)
Total T: 802
Free T: 174.3 (35-155)

Had I continued with 200mg a week I would have cleared a HCT of 53 I'm sure based on my history. E2 might be a touch high but I'm not noticing it. Total right about the same. Looks like maybe I could nudge down from 20mg or consider a tiny amount of AI. Or maybe reduce the HCG a bit.

I do have some numbers for peak while on 200mg a week and my total is >1500 with E2 @ 60 and Free T over 30.. the kind of numbers you would expect at that level I suppose.

Not really posting for advice, just more of an FYI - here's what I learned kind of thing.

Because I like to have my cake and eat it too I will run this 20mg a day for awhile to see if the effect on HCT is real. Ideally it is but then I'd also like to go back to 200mg a week for short periods when I really want to get after it in the gym - otherwise I feel like its a waste unless I just need that to feel my best, which doesn't seem to be the case.

If these are your most recent labs 1 month apart between switching protocols than you would very well know it is much too early to tell where things will end up let alone gauge how you truly feel overall as once you get through FLUX and blood levels have stabilized it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt.

When using exogenous T although it is very common for hematocrit to increase within the first month it can take up to 9 months to reach peak levels but most would never notice such as they tend to jump the gun and get caught up on those frequent blood donations to manage the S**T show which comes with its own set of problems (low ferritin/iron).

Too many tend to run much higher TT/FT levels than is truly needed and constantly struggle to manage elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit and end up crashing ferritin which can cause many other issues.

Personally I never really liked the once-weekly injection protocols using the high-end trt dose of 200 mg/week as not only are you driving up your TT/FT/e2 absurdly high post-injection/first few days of the week only to be followed by much lower levels come weeks end and in many cases on such dose TT/FT levels are still on the higher-end.

Not only is there a big difference in peak--->trough but blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which for many can end up causing a yo-yo effect which can have a negative impact on energy/mood/libido/erectile function/recovery.

Pretty much a given that you are going to have issues with controlling elevated RBC's/hemoglobin/hematocrit let alone many end up jumping on an AI to control the e2.

If you happen to be one of the few that truly feels great on such protocol and blood markers are healthy then stick with it.

In your case, you stated that you had felt very well for a long time with no issues other than playing the frequent blood donation game to manage hematocrit and if you are content with such then do what is best for you.

Many men would fare much better injecting lower doses of T more frequently with fewer issues overall and in many cases will end up feeling much better but this can easily be thrown out the window if one chooses to run too high TT/FT levels even on dailies.

Although some may notice a drop in estradiol/hematocrit when switching over to daily injections it is not a given as many may very well still end up running too high TT/FT levels.

You made a big mistake when getting labs as unfortunately, we have no idea where your FT level truly sits on the 200 mg/week protocol seeing as the piss poor direct immunoassay was used.

At least on the 20 mg/day protocol FT was tested using what is considered the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

When testing FT let alone comparing lab work same lab, same assay (most accurate), same testing time (true trough on such protocol) would need to be done.

When it comes to FT it is critical to have it tested using the most accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration if you want to know where your FT level truly sits.

Regarding your ferritin even though you are not experiencing any symptoms I would still look into seeing where it sits as of now!

 

[S1W]

If these are your most recent labs 1 month apart between switching protocols than you would very well know it is much too early to tell where things will end up let alone gauge how you truly feel overall as once you get through FLUX and blood levels have stabilized it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt.

When using exogenous T although it is very common for hematocrit to increase within the first month it can take up to 9 months to reach peak levels but most would never notice such as they tend to jump the gun and get caught up on those frequent blood donations to manage the S**T show which comes with its own set of problems (low ferritin/iron).

Too many tend to run much higher TT/FT levels than is truly needed and constantly struggle to manage elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit and end up crashing ferritin which can cause many other issues.

Personally I never really liked the once-weekly injection protocols using the high-end trt dose of 200 mg/week as not only are you driving up your TT/FT/e2 absurdly high post-injection/first few days of the week only to be followed by much lower levels come weeks end and in many cases on such dose TT/FT levels are still on the higher-end.

Not only is there a big difference in peak--->trough but blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which for many can end up causing a yo-yo effect which can have a negative impact on energy/mood/libido/erectile function/recovery.

Pretty much a given that you are going to have issues with controlling elevated RBC's/hemoglobin/hematocrit let alone many end up jumping on an AI to control the e2.

If you happen to be one of the few that truly feels great on such protocol and blood markers are healthy then stick with it.

In your case, you stated that you had felt very well for a long time with no issues other than playing the frequent blood donation game to manage hematocrit and if you are content with such then do what is best for you.

Many men would fare much better injecting lower doses of T more frequently with fewer issues overall and in many cases will end up feeling much better but this can easily be thrown out the window if one chooses to run too high TT/FT levels even on dailies.

Although some may notice a drop in estradiol/hematocrit when switching over to daily injections it is not a given as many may very well still end up running too high TT/FT levels.

You made a big mistake when getting labs as unfortunately, we have no idea where your FT level truly sits on the 200 mg/week protocol seeing as the piss poor direct immunoassay was used.

At least on the 20 mg/day protocol FT was tested using what is considered the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

When testing FT let alone comparing lab work same lab, same assay (most accurate), same testing time (true trough on such protocol) would need to be done.

When it comes to FT it is critical to have it tested using the most accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration if you want to know where your FT level truly sits.

Regarding your ferritin even though you are not experiencing any symptoms I would still look into seeing where it sits as of now!

I recall a set of labs from about a year ago. Taken 5 weeks into a protocol change from E3.5D to daily injections. Details aside, it seemed that my E2 had gone up a fair amount while TT/FT went down.

Would you think that this incongruent result would be a result of testing too early, and that if I had waited 8+ weeks I may have seen a different E2 number as things settled out?

People frequently say 5-6 weeks is adequate time to test after a protocol change but I’m beginning to question that, particularly in regards to E2 levels.

 

[lowtdunce]

Had another CBC done here just a few days ago.. so around 9 weeks after my switch to 10mg a day.
Hemo 17.1
Hemat 51.2
RBC 6.08
E2 sensitive 13 (I've been doing about .25mg Anastrozole every 3.5 days)

Didn't test anything else, didn't really care. I'm stoked that my H&H is dropping. I still feel as good as I did on 200mg a week. Maybe better.. sometimes think maybe I was feeling the trough day(s) but honestly I haven't noticed anything major.

Gunna work on that E2 a bit. I've been more in the ratio camp than an absolute number when it comes to that so I'd like to see it a bit higher with my total T in the 800s. Maybe 25 or so.

So far, daily dosing has been the answer to constantly rising hematocrit for me.

 

[Vince]

Since I switched to daily injections, almost 4 years ago. I have not had to donate blood at all. My HCT has stayed under 50. That was a reason I switched to daily injections. But it does not work for everyone.