20mg Test subq daily, total test > 30 ng/ml Magic happens :-)

[andrepohlann]

I did a bloodtest. Got back the result this morning.
E2 46pg/ml
SHBG 61,4 nmol/l
Albumin 43 g/l
T >30.00 ng/ml

I inject 20mg/d subq. If I calculate the free T with only 30 I get 0,36 ng/dl.
I wait for the messurement of the free T and there is something called free androgen index.
About two years ago (same 20mg/d subq) total T was 13,28.

Even if my Testosterone is double what is labled (200mg/ml) it is not enough to get over 30 total.
By the way I am not happy with the SHBG and the E2. The higher E2 will drive the SHBG up and "eat up" my free T.
When I reduce the dose (did this several times) to 9-12mg a day, it is like off trt. Start to feel it when it goes above 15. But I do not know E2 or SHGB levels for the lower dose.

I could also try to reduce the T to 12-16mg/d and add 40-60mg Nandrolone. The nandrolone binds very little to SHGB and maybe it rueduces it. The lower the test, the lower E2.

What do you think?

By the way: I have BF under 10%, 8 to 9 mostly, so in theory there is little aromatase to expect. In theory

 

[Gman86]

I’m assuming you watched Dr. Lichten’s recently video? Very interesting information right? I’m also very interested in nandrolone, and would like to try a small dose per week. For the freeing up of my free T, as well as joint/ anti inflammatory benefits.

Where do you plan on getting your nandrolone? You think you can get it prescribed?

 

[andrepohlann]

No, no discribtion. But the UK has not very strict laws when it comes to AAS. It is possible to order things...

 

[Vince Carter]

Not true

The higher E2 will drive the SHBG up

 

[andrepohlann]

Not true

Really?
"due to activation of SHBG production in the liver by high estrogen levels, SHBG levels increase by 5- to 10-fold"

Source: Sex hormone-binding globulin - Wikipedia

 

[Cataceous]

30 ng/ml is the same as 3,000 ng/dL. So free T > 100 ng/dL... Test error?

 

[Vince Carter]

Wiki is not a source for factual information.

 

[Cataceous]

Wiki is not a source for factual information.

So what is your objection to the underlying source?
Winters SJ, Huhtaniemi IT (25 April 2017). Male Hypogonadism: Basic, Clinical and Therapeutic Principles. Humana Press. p. 307. ISBN 978-3-319-53298-1.

 

[andrepohlann]

30 ng/ml is the same as 3,000 ng/dL. So free T > 100 ng/dL... Test error?

Maybe. I am waiting for the result for free test. Going to come in end of next week. Anyway the SHBG worries me. Not the E2 itself.

 

[andrepohlann]

Wiki is not a source for factual information.

But your "not true" is?

 

[Vince Carter]

Why yes, it is.

Do yourself a favor...this is the very best forum on the web for men's health, the best group of guys that really know from direct experience...read more and post much less.

 

[andrepohlann]

This is my first post ever, check for how long I am member. You are right, exactly this is the reason I ask here for help. And I would prefer answers based on knowledge less than reputation. Excuse my English.

 

[Cataceous]

This is my first post ever, check for how long I am member. You are right, exactly this is the reason I ask here for help. And I would prefer answers based on knowledge less than reputation. Excuse my English.

Feel free to doubt anyone who isn't willing to back up questionable statements with science-based references.

Endogenous or exogenous thyroid hormones or estrogens increase SHBG levels.[1]
--
SHGB levels are increased by the following:

• Estrogens [2]​

--
In participants receiving active [estrogen therapy] intervention compared with placebo, estrogenic hormone levels increased from baseline to year 1 by 3.6-fold for total estrone, 2.7-fold for total estradiol, and 1.8-fold for bioavailable and free estradiol concentrations. Serum sex hormone-binding globulin concentrations also increased 2.5-fold.[3]
--
... men ... were treated for 9 weeks with micronized estradiol, 1 mg/d ... SHBG levels increased significantly by 17%.[4]
--
SHBG increased in the estrogen group and decreased in the estrogen-androgen group...[5]

Estrogens increase SHBG, period.

 

[JV63]

Really?
"due to activation of SHBG production in the liver by high estrogen levels, SHBG levels increase by 5- to 10-fold"

Source: Sex hormone-binding globulin - Wikipedia

If you want to use that source, then all I can say is congratulations on your pregnancy.

 

[xqfq]

At 20mg/day test-e subQ, 150IU HCG EOD I am at 952 ng/dL, 42.3 SHBG, 17.5 pg/mL (Labcorp range 5.00 - 21.00) direct free T, E2 sensitive 40.4 pg/mL, E2 standard 47 pg/mL.

One month into TRT on 120mg/week, 250IU HCG twice a week, I was at 48 SHBG, 18.7 e2 sensitive, 30 pg/mL e2 non sensitive, 447 ng/dL Total T. I don’t have pre-TRT SHBG.

 

[Cataceous]

At 20mg/day test-e subQ, 150IU HCG EOD I am at 952 ng/dL, 42.3 SHBG, 17.5 pg/mL (Labcorp range 5.00 - 21.00) direct free T, E2 sensitive 40.4 pg/mL, E2 standard 47 pg/mL.

One month into TRT on 120mg/week, 250IU HCG twice a week, I was at 48 SHBG, 18.7 e2 sensitive, 30 pg/mL e2 non sensitive, 447 ng/dL Total T. I don’t have pre-TRT SHBG.

Try these:

March: 18 mg EOD T enanthate, 250 IU hCG EOD, 70 mcg anastrozole EOD
T: 800 ng/dL, estradiol: 35 pg/mL, estradiol sensitive: 31 pg/mL, SHBG: 34 nMol/L

June: 9 mg ED T propionate
T: 540 ng/dL (trough), estradiol: < 5 pg/mL, estradiol sensitive: < 2.5 pg/mL, SHBG: 10 nMol/L

In view of the research it's pretty safe to say that having undetectable estradiol contributed to the precipitous drop in SHBG. Both have since rebounded to normal.

 

[JV63]

Why keep posting sources relating to women?

"...SHBG functions differently in women than in men"-Taken directly from the source stated in post #8.

 

[Cataceous]

Why keep posting sources relating to women?

"...SHBG functions differently in women than in men"-Taken directly from the source stated in post #8.

We're talking about creation of SHBG, not how it functions afterwards. In both males and females, production in the liver is stimulated by estrogens and suppressed by androgens.

 

[andrepohlann]

If you want to use that source, then all I can say is congratulations on your pregnancy.

Yip. But is the same liver in both sexes. There is no female version of heart, liver, kidneys, red blood cells and so on. You won´t believe it but man and woman have much more in common than men and mice or men and rats.

 

[andrepohlann]

So here is what I do: I stop injecting for 7 days. This is just to bring the high testosterone level down and reduce the aromatase activity. After it I combine 100mg TE/w and 45mg/w Nandrolone. So it is nearly the same ammount of androgens (140mg now, 145 then). I will inject only 3 times a week. Stable levels for T will be reached this way after 34 days, for Deca after 29 days. So a blood test makes sense earliest after 6 weeks. I expect SHBG WAY lower and E2 somewhere in 30th. Of course this is guessing. I will see and report if someone is interested.
The goal is to increase the free test to somewhere between 30-50. While keeping total T, E2 and SHGB down (at least lower than now)

One last thing. The concept (Jay Campbell , Danny Bossa et al.) "increase your total T as long till your free T is optimal, even if it means your total is >1800ng/dl" seems not to work well for me. As said above high BF can´t be the reason for high aromatase activivity.