Prop vs Cyp Dosage

[TRTinNY]

What Im seeing with Prop is that the vial strength is 100mg/mL, unlike my Cyp @ 200mg/mL.

Could someone tell me if I'm doing 9mg daily on Cyp what the appropriate Dosage with propianate should be?

Before anyone comments... The doctor is doing this to reduce my hematocrit from rising so fast.

Thank you!

 

[fifty]

I would stick with 9mg. Use 8mg if you want to turn it into a math problem.

 

[TRTinNY]

I would stick with 9mg. Use 8mg if you want to turn it into a math problem.

How does that get equated if the mg per ml is cut in half.... Sorry I really am trying to understand why.

 

[fifty]

A mg is a mg.

Are you saying you’re taking .09ml of test cypionate currently which is 18mg?

 

[TRTinNY]

Oh right... Lol duh I misread what you said.... I've been doing .18ml eod of Test Cyp.... What an idiot I am. Which means I've been going 4.5mg per day. Is this right? Which means I've been on a very low dose. I should have been doing double. I haven't felt great either. Not bad but I've actually been really tired.

 

[fifty]

.18ml is 36mg of 200mg/ml cypionate.

 

[TRTinNY]

.18ml is 36mg of 200mg/ml cypionate.

Holy shit I'm tired. So I have to do .09ml of prop.

 

[Cataceous]

Somewhat unclear, but let's say you're currently injecting 0.09 mL T cypionate @200 mg/mL daily. This means you're injecting 18 mg T cypionate. Cypionate is 70% testosterone, so you are injecting 12.6 mg T each day. However, propionate is 83.7% testosterone. To get the same amount of testosterone you need only 12.6 mg / 0.837 = 15 mg propionate daily. Because this propionate is 100 mg/mL, you would need 0.15 mL per day to get the same amount of testosterone.

However, propionate will give much larger excursions, so you should try to cut the dose so that your new peak serum testosterone matches what you measured previously. I would try around 10-12 mg.

 

[TRTinNY]

Somewhat unclear, but let's say you're currently injecting 0.09 mL T cypionate @200 mg/mL daily. This means you're injecting 18 mg T cypionate. Cypionate is 70% testosterone, so you are injecting 12.6 mg T each day. However, propionate is 83.7% testosterone. To get the same amount of testosterone you need only 12.6 mg / 0.837 = 15 mg propionate daily. Because this propionate is 100 mg/mL, you would need 0.15 mL per day to get the same amount of testosterone.

However, propionate will give much larger excursions, so you should try to cut the dose so that your new peak serum testosterone matches what you measured previously. I would try around 10-12 mg.

What's an excursion

 

[Cataceous]

What's an excursion

In this case it means that your serum testosterone is going from pretty high to pretty low in each injection cycle—and low to high too. For example, when I was injecting 18 mg T enanthate EOD I had total testosterone that stayed in the upper 700s ng/dL almost all the time. When I switched to daily propionate I found that a similar amount of testosterone led to peak testosterone being over 1,100 ng/dL and trough testosterone being around 400 ng/dL.

This variation, 40-50% around the mean, is larger than is seen naturally, which is more like 20-25%. This is why I've been promoting the idea of "diluting" propionate with cypionate as needed in order to damp down the excursions—variations—to more natural amounts.

 

[bp]

In this case it means that your serum testosterone is going from pretty high to pretty low in each injection cycle—and low to high too. For example, when I was injecting 18 mg T enanthate EOD I had total testosterone that stayed in the upper 700s ng/dL almost all the time. When I switched to daily propionate I found that a similar amount of testosterone led to peak testosterone being over 1,100 ng/dL and trough testosterone being around 400 ng/dL.

This variation, 40-50% around the mean, is larger than is seen naturally, which is more like 20-25%. This is why I've been promoting the idea of "diluting" propionate with cypionate as needed in order to damp down the excursions—variations—to more natural amounts.

Did you find an ideal mixture Cat?
(In terms of cypionate to propíonate %ages?)

I’m interested, as mypropionate bloodwork is very similar to yours (in terms of testosterone levels and variation from the mean.)

The compounding pharmacies in the US, and the blends available in Europe seem to favour :
80/20 split, in favour of Cypionate (or Enanthate)
Where as my thinking is that a complete opposite might be better for those of us that like propionate, but need to lessen the variation from the mean.
So 60-80 % propionate Possibly.

Thoughts?

regards
Ben

 

[Cataceous]

Did you find an ideal mixture Cat?
(In terms of cypionate to propíonate %ages?)

I’m interested, as mypropionate bloodwork is very similar to yours (in terms of testosterone levels and variation from the mean.)

The compounding pharmacies in the US, and the blends available in Europe seem to favour :
80/20 split, in favour of Cypionate (or Enanthate)
Where as my thinking is that a complete opposite might be better for those of us that like propionate, but need to lessen the variation from the mean.
So 60-80 % propionate Possibly.

Thoughts?

regards
Ben

I agree that the commercial blends aren't very useful because they have too little T propionate.

I won't make claims about its being "ideal", but for me a 4:3 ratio by weight of T enanthate to T propionate gives a pretty natural daily variation in serum testosterone about the mean, +/-23%. Nominally it's going from 780 ng/dL at peak down to 480 ng/dL at trough.

T cypionate isn't too different from enanthate, so assuming your absorption of propionate is similar to mine then you should get similar results with a 4:3 ratio. If your cypionate is 200 mg/mL and your propionate is 100 mg/mL then the volume ratio of cypionate to propionate is 2:3.

It's useful to already know your steady state response to testosterone esters, which is found by sampling serum testosterone while on frequent doses—ED or EOD—of a longer ester like cypionate. I have found that under these conditions my Tru-T free testosterone is directly proportional to dose. This combined with my absorption rate for propionate allow me to predict pretty accurately what to expect with a given protocol.