Possible estradiol crash, help needed.

[Donovan]

So as I posted before I started TRT a year ago at 180mg of test and no AI and lowish SHGB (21).
My first labs showed that my TT was 1400 and my FT was mid range, possibly due to my elevated E2 (81).

I reduced my dose to 140 mg of test and 1-1.25 mg Arimidex per week.
I decided to lower my dose even further and use 100-120 mg per week since my SHGB is low and more testosterone is released.

Long story short, did my first 50 mg shot on Monday and took 0.5 mg of Arimidex the same day. Up untill wednesday I felt amazing. Libido, nigh time erections, strenght at the gym, focus, everything was great.

I did my next shot on Thursday and took a little more than 0.5 mg of Arimidex, maybe 0.75.

From that day until today I feel like death. Dry lips, dry skin, libido drop, loss of appetite, tired eyes, brain fog,extreme fatigue and my mouth feels kinda dry too.

My symptoms look like low E2. Now what do you guys think I should do?
I was thinking of stopping the arimidex and continuing my current dose, hoping that my low SHGB will bring E2 up quickly.

Is there anything else I could do? Thanks in advance guys and sorry for the long post, my job needs extreme mental focus and I must get better as fast as possible.

 

[johndoesmith]

So as I posted before I started TRT a year ago at 180mg of test and no AI and lowish SHGB (21).
My first labs showed that my TT was 1400 and my FT was mid range, possibly due to my elevated E2 (81).

Full labs. Post pictures. This mid range and random numbers without ranges isn't helping.

Also what was your protocol, and when did you test relevant to injection? This is essential information.

I reduced my dose to 140 mg of test and 1-1.25 mg Arimidex per week.

Too many changes at once, lowering test and adding a fairly high dose of AI is not a great idea. You could have made better choices, lowering dose and splitting it into more injections would be a better idea.

I decided to lower my dose even further and use 100-120 mg per week since my SHGB is low and more testosterone is released.

It's not so much that more is "released", it's that it's metabolized faster, although released isn't exactly incorrect, but this is semantics.

Long story short, did my first 50 mg shot on Monday and took 0.5 mg of Arimidex the same day. Up untill wednesday I felt amazing. Libido, nigh time erections, strenght at the gym, focus, everything was great.

I did my next shot on Thursday and took a little more than 0.5 mg of Arimidex, maybe 0.75.

From that day until today I feel like death. Dry lips, dry skin, libido drop, loss of appetite, tired eyes, brain fog,extreme fatigue and my mouth feels kinda dry too.

Sounds like low E2. Especially with your high doses of AI. Also, you don't know how much you took? Why not remain consistent, instead of changing doses constantly? You will find it hard to find success with TRT without consistency.

My symptoms look like low E2. Now what do you guys think I should do?

Stop the AI. Stick to a consistent protocol for 6 weeks, pull labs.

Is there anything else I could do? Thanks in advance guys and sorry for the long post, my job needs extreme mental focus and I must get better as fast as possible.

Not really AFAIK. I don't think anyone would recommend more complicated methods of raising E2 other than allowing it to happen naturally.

This is the risk you take unfortunately when dosing drugs based on your current feelings. Consistency, consistency, consistency.

 

[Donovan]

I split my dose into two injections. I stayed on 140 mg of test for about 6 months and decided recently to lower it even further.The lab results I posted were 2 days after my 90 mg shot. A total of 180 mg was too high for me so I reduced it to 140

 

[johndoesmith]

I split my dose into two injections. I stayed on 140 mg of test for about 6 months and decided recently to lower it even further.The lab results I posted were 2 days after my 90 mg shot. A total of 180 mg was too high for me so I reduced it to 140

Yeah you didn't really answer my questions and only added to confusion.

No ranges, protocols, or ai doses. Can't really say much.

 

[CoastWatcher]

It's something of a challenge, following your post. The one thing that is clear, though, is that you've only given us a glimpse of your protocol, which seems to be in a state of constant flux, a bit more of this one day, perhaps a bit less the next injection day, and we've no clear statement of what your lab results are. If you can give us a clear statement of your protocol, and post labs, a good discussion is likely to result.

I will note this, however: protocol changes in the absence of supporting lab work is an open invitation to disaster. Frequent, multiple changes will only compound the problem.

 

[Donovan]

Ranges are TT 1400 (300-1200)
FT 22 (8-54)
SHGB 21.5 (20-64)
E2 81(20-71)
Protocol was 140mg test split into 2 injections with 0.5 mg Arimidex the day of each injections. I would add 0.25mg depending on how I felt.

New protocol would be 100 mg split into 2 injections and the same amount of Arimidex.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I

Ranges are TT 1400 (300-1200)
FT 22 (8-54)
SHGB 21.5 (20-64)
E2 81(20-71)
Protocol was 140mg test split into 2 injections with 0.5 mg Arimidex the day of each injections. I would add 0.25mg depending on how I felt.

New protocol would be 100 mg split into 2 injections and the same amount of Arimidex.

Thank you, that helps. Do you live in the United States? If so, the wrong estradiol test was run. The ranges are a dead giveaway. You always want to measure your E2 with the sensitive (LC, MS/MS) lab test since the standard test simply is unreliable when used by men. If you are outside the US, you have to mange estradiol with something of a blindfold on as the sensitive test is very hard to find.

That said, your E2 value is certainly high and *may* be elevated. Your total testosterone is certainly elevated, too. Yet .5mg of anastrozole with every shot is a significant dose. To add another .25mg based on how you feel is simply foolish. Dosing an AI on the basis of subjective feelings will lead you down a rabbit hole. Please don't do that. Given the adjustments you have made, and the way you say you feel, I would self test through Discountedlabs.com. Total and free testosterone, *sensitive* estradiol (and SHBG if so inclined). Then you will know where you stand. Until then no changes of any sort.

 

[Donovan]

Thanks for the reply brother, should I quit the AI for now? I've already arranged to do bloodwork next friday

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for the reply brother, should I quit the AI for now? I've already arranged to do bloodwork next friday

When did you test relative to injection?

Like coastwatcher said basing ai dose on feelings is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm also not sure how useful your results will be if you haven't maintained a consistent protocol for 6 weeks.

 

[CoastWatcher]

When did you test relative to injection?

Like coastwatcher said basing ai dose on feelings is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm also not sure how useful your results will be if you haven't maintained a consistent protocol for 6 weeks.

Your tests will be less that ideal, given the changes that you have made, but you'll at least know where you stand this week. That will permit you to get some sense of the protocol's success/failure. When are you due to consult your doctor again, and - in light of the fact that he prescribed a whopping dose of AI and failed to order the proper estradiol test - will you consider finding better care?

 

[johndoesmith]

Your tests will be less that ideal, given the changes that you have made, but you'll at least know where you stand this week. That will permit you to get some sense of the protocol's success/failure. When are you due to consult your doctor again, and - in light of the fact that he prescribed a whopping dose of AI and failed to order the proper estradiol test - will you consider finding better care?

I'm pretty sure you meant to reply to OP.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm pretty sure you meant to reply to OP.

I wasn't replying. I was sustaining your point and amplifying it.

 

[Donovan]

So its been 10 days since the last time I took Arimidex and I feel 70 % better. It definetely seem like I crashed my E2. I'm waiting for my test results, I'll probably have them by friday.

Tommorow I an getting my 70 mg shot (protocol is 70mg twice per week). Should I start taking Arimidex at a lower dosage, like 0.25 mg or should I wait a little bit?

I now I have messed up my protocol and that I haven't been consistent enough but I live abroad and the doctors here are not so updated about TRT so any advice will be greatly appreciated

 

[johndoesmith]

So its been 10 days since the last time I took Arimidex and I feel 70 % better. It definetely seem like I crashed my E2. I'm waiting for my test results, I'll probably have them by friday.

Tommorow I an getting my 70 mg shot (protocol is 70mg twice per week). Should I start taking Arimidex at a lower dosage, like 0.25 mg or should I wait a little bit?

I now I have messed up my protocol and that I haven't been consistent enough but I live abroad and the doctors here are not so updated about TRT so any advice will be greatly appreciated

Please do not take AI until you have high E2 symptoms and test results showing high E2. It's been 11 days.

Do you want to go through what you just did again?

 

[CoastWatcher]

What makes you think you need an AI at all, and how will you determine the proper dose? That is a serious question. Do you want to repeat what you just went through? Anastrozole is not a mandatory aspect of a TRT protocol. Its overuse is a serious challenge.

 

[Donovan]

So I got some of my results back, I'll have them all by friday .
Blood was drawn 72 hours after my 70 mg injection.
TT 1100 (3-12)
FT 19 (8-54)
E2 65 (20-71)
DHT 780 (250-990)

Thats all i got for now. Seems like I convert a lot of test to E2 and that lowers my FT probably. My DHT is in perfect range though and that is suprizing.

As I said I'm waiting for the test of my results, should I start Arimidex ? Obviously 0.5 twice per week lowers my E2 too much, maybe a lower dose?

 

[Vince]

Donovan that is the Sensitive Estradiol Test
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...d-be-Tested-with-the-Sensitive-Estradiol-Test

 

[Donovan]

Vince I live abroad and sensitive estadiol test is not an option

 

[johndoesmith]

So I got some of my results back, I'll have them all by friday .
Blood was drawn 72 hours after my 70 mg injection.
TT 1100 (3-12)
FT 19 (8-54)
E2 65 (20-71)
DHT 780 (250-990)

Thats all i got for now. Seems like I convert a lot of test to E2 and that lowers my FT probably. My DHT is in perfect range though and that is suprizing.

As I said I'm waiting for the test of my results, should I start Arimidex ? Obviously 0.5 twice per week lowers my E2 too much, maybe a lower dose?

How do you feel? That E2 level certainly doesn't scream high to me, especially with it being a standard test and you having a high total test level.

Can you clarify that total testosterone range? "3-12"? Or do you mean "300-1200"?




Both blue and red are given testosterone gel, at varying doses. Red group is given 1mg a day of adex, and as you see, their E2 is completely crashed.

The red group has slightly higher levels of testosterone than blue, due to less aromatization, but the amount is miniscule. There is practically no difference between 800 and 900 total.

 

[Donovan]

My libido is down for sure and had no morning or night time erections for the last 3 days. Other than that I feel OK I guess, much better than last week. Yes the range is 300-1200. What troubles me the most is my lowish FT. Guys with low SHGB have high TT,high FT and high Estrogen so why is mine that low? At least my DHT seems ok.