Optimal Progesterone level in men?
- Thread starter Gianluca
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Was wondering the same myself, especially in regards to progesterones supposed affects on water retention and estrogen dominance. This is what Dr. Saya wrote in a different thread back in 2016. The reference range for lab corp is now 0.0 - 0.5ng/mL.
"LabCorp inexplicably changed their progesterone reference range for males about 3 weeks ago to an absurd range of 0.0 - 0.1ng/mL (basically nothing). Previously the range was 0.0 - 1.2 (or 1.5ng/mL depending on lab).
I can tell you that EVERY SINGLE patient has tested "high" for progesterone since that time...however it is NOT normal to have a progesterone level of 0.0 for a male. Rest assured your progesterone level of 0.3ng/mL is FULLY normal and in fact on the lower end of normal for the average male. We can discuss further during consult."
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Gianluca
Well-Known Member
after supplementing with Pregnenolone, mine is about .7 on the LabCorp scale
You feel any better with it at that number or notice any positive differences?
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
once I started supplementing with Pregnenolone, my adrenalinic e2 symptoms disappeared
These have been my past results on progesterone and pregnenolone:
Progesterone 0.4 ng/ml (0.0-0.5) 9.18.2019
Pregnenolone MS 65 ng/dl (<151) 3.13.2020
Pregnenolone MS 37 ng/dl (<151) 7.20.2020
I was suffering from short term memory problems and I had adrenal fatigued. I decided to take 12.5mg slow release pregnenolone to improve those 2 areas and it worked along with dhea, ashwagandha, rodiola rosea, high dose iodine, selenium, and vitamin e. The side effect of the oral pregnenolone was that it gave me bad acne so I stopped. I read on here that the pregnenolone test is useless and I'm not sure why that is. Doctor Saya suggested 25mg of pregnenolone cream and 25 mg of dhea cream to bypass the liver and minimize any side effects that the orals create. I will re-check my pregnenolone and dhea in 3 months. So far, applying 25mg of pregnenolone keeps me calm. I don't stress about small or big things. I can control my impulses and get over things in a matter of a seconds to a few minutes. I have not noticed anything with colors being brighter or with short term memory improvement. I have only been applying it for 1 week so it might take longer
I read online that optimal progesterone needs to be between 80 to 100 ng/dl . I have attached the document below (go to page 37/38) you will also find a whole lot more interesting information about all of your hormones.
Progesterone 0.4 ng/ml (0.0-0.5) 9.18.2019
Pregnenolone MS 65 ng/dl (<151) 3.13.2020
Pregnenolone MS 37 ng/dl (<151) 7.20.2020
I was suffering from short term memory problems and I had adrenal fatigued. I decided to take 12.5mg slow release pregnenolone to improve those 2 areas and it worked along with dhea, ashwagandha, rodiola rosea, high dose iodine, selenium, and vitamin e. The side effect of the oral pregnenolone was that it gave me bad acne so I stopped. I read on here that the pregnenolone test is useless and I'm not sure why that is. Doctor Saya suggested 25mg of pregnenolone cream and 25 mg of dhea cream to bypass the liver and minimize any side effects that the orals create. I will re-check my pregnenolone and dhea in 3 months. So far, applying 25mg of pregnenolone keeps me calm. I don't stress about small or big things. I can control my impulses and get over things in a matter of a seconds to a few minutes. I have not noticed anything with colors being brighter or with short term memory improvement. I have only been applying it for 1 week so it might take longer
I read online that optimal progesterone needs to be between 80 to 100 ng/dl . I have attached the document below (go to page 37/38) you will also find a whole lot more interesting information about all of your hormones.
What do u consider high dose iodine supplementation? And what form are u taking?
According to doctor childs westin when you have a thyroid issue or adrenal fatigue 70 to 80% of patients do great with high dose iodine. Patients also feel an immediate relief of thyroid issues. He suggest to take iodine (5mg as molecular iodine) and (7.5 mg as potassium iodide) which totals to 12.5 mg. That is what I take along with selenium to avoid any side effects. I increased my selenium intake to 300mcg because it was low normal.
The brand I use for the high dose iodine is adaptogen research 90 caps from amazon. You can find more information on this on his webpage or his you tube channel. The title of the iodine video is high dose vs low dose iodine for thyroid patients.
Ya I love dr Westin Childs. Been following him for a long time. Possibly the top of the food chain in regards to treating the thyroid, imo. I’ll definitely check that video out. Thanks!
Real quick, any reason why u chose that supplement over lugols iodine? And do u supplement the selenium or get it from good, like Brazil nuts?
Interesting attachment Benny, it was a good read with the case studies and proposed treatments. How do you like the preg cream compared to the oral form? Do you apply once or twice daily?
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Gianluca
Well-Known Member
Very nice, Pregnenolone had a profound effect on me, do you feel calmer on the cream vs the oral capsule? I have tried a slow released and now instant released, I think slow released just works better, but I thought if would cause me some sleep disturbances
Gianluca
Well-Known Member
I’m super into iodine right now lol. Been researching it like crazy the past few weeks.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
"The reference range for progesterone levels in adult men is 0.13–0.97 ng/ml. Zumoff and colleagues reported a mean serum progesterone level of 0.18+0.03 ng/ml for men (n= 7) and of 0.21+0.05 ng/ml for young women in the follicular phase (n=8)."
The Aging Male 2004;7:236–257
Review
Progesterone: the forgotten hormone in men?
M. Oettel and A. K. Mukhopadhyay*
Jena; *Institute for Hormone and Fertility Research and AgeLab Pharma GmbH, Hamburg, Germany
ABSTRACT
‘Classical’ genomic progesterone receptors appear relatively late in phylogenesis, i.e. it is only in birds and mammals that they are detectable. In the different species, they mediate manifold effects regarding the differentiation of target organ functions, mainly in the reproductive system. Surprisingly, we know little about the physiology, endocrinology, and pharmacology of progesterone and progestins in male gender or men respectively, despite the fact that, as to progesterone secretion and serum progesterone levels, there are no great quantitative differences between men and women (at least outside the luteal phase). In a prospective cohort study of 1026 men with and without cardiovascular disease, we were not able to demonstrate any age-dependent change in serum progesterone concentrations. Progesterone influences spermiogenesis, sperm capacitation/acrosome reaction and testosterone biosynthesis in the Leydig cells. Other progesterone effects in men include those on the central nervous system (CNS) mainly mediated by 5a-reduced progesterone metabo-lites as so-called neurosteroids), including blocking of gonadotropin secretion, sleep improvement, and effects on tumors in the CNS (meningioma, fibroma), as well as effects on the immune system, cardiovascular system, kidney function, adipose tissue, behavior, and respira-tory system. A progestin may stimulate weight gain and appetite in men as well as in women. The detection of progesterone receptor isoforms would have a highly diagnostic value in prostate pathology (benign prostatic hypertrophy and prostate cancer). The modulation of progesterone effects on typical male targets is connected with a great pharmacodynamic variability. The reason for this is that, in men, some important effects of progesterone are mediated non-genomically through different molecular biological modes of action. Therefore, the precise therapeutic manipulation of progesterone actions in the male requires completely new endocrine-pharmacological approaches.
PROGESTERONE AND SLEEP
Intramuscular injection of 200 mg progesterone produces mild sedative-like effects in men and women147. A single oral administration of 300 mg micronized progesterone at 21.30 in-duced a significant increase in the amount of non-rapid eye movement (non-REM) sleep in nine healthy male volunteers. The EEG spectral power during non-REM sleep showed a significant decrease in the slow wave frequency range (0.4–4.3 Hz), whereas the spectral power in the higher frequency range (4 15 Hz) tended to be elevated. Some of the observed changes in the sleeping pattern and sleep-EEG power spectra are similar to those induced by agonistic modulators of the GABAA receptor complex and appear to be mediated in part by the conversion of progester-one into its GABA-active, 5a-reduced metabolites148. The oral administration of pro-gesterone at the same dosage and at the same time (300 mg in the evening) produced no consistent effects on attention performance. Thus, dosages of progesterone that are sufficient to modulate sleep in men are not likely to exert sedative hangover effects149. It seems that only progesterone includ-ing its 5a-reduced metabolites is involved in positive sleep regulation, whereas, in contrast to this, the synthetic progestin megestrol acetate reduces REM sleep150.
The Aging Male 2004;7:236–257
Review
Progesterone: the forgotten hormone in men?
M. Oettel and A. K. Mukhopadhyay*
Jena; *Institute for Hormone and Fertility Research and AgeLab Pharma GmbH, Hamburg, Germany
ABSTRACT
‘Classical’ genomic progesterone receptors appear relatively late in phylogenesis, i.e. it is only in birds and mammals that they are detectable. In the different species, they mediate manifold effects regarding the differentiation of target organ functions, mainly in the reproductive system. Surprisingly, we know little about the physiology, endocrinology, and pharmacology of progesterone and progestins in male gender or men respectively, despite the fact that, as to progesterone secretion and serum progesterone levels, there are no great quantitative differences between men and women (at least outside the luteal phase). In a prospective cohort study of 1026 men with and without cardiovascular disease, we were not able to demonstrate any age-dependent change in serum progesterone concentrations. Progesterone influences spermiogenesis, sperm capacitation/acrosome reaction and testosterone biosynthesis in the Leydig cells. Other progesterone effects in men include those on the central nervous system (CNS) mainly mediated by 5a-reduced progesterone metabo-lites as so-called neurosteroids), including blocking of gonadotropin secretion, sleep improvement, and effects on tumors in the CNS (meningioma, fibroma), as well as effects on the immune system, cardiovascular system, kidney function, adipose tissue, behavior, and respira-tory system. A progestin may stimulate weight gain and appetite in men as well as in women. The detection of progesterone receptor isoforms would have a highly diagnostic value in prostate pathology (benign prostatic hypertrophy and prostate cancer). The modulation of progesterone effects on typical male targets is connected with a great pharmacodynamic variability. The reason for this is that, in men, some important effects of progesterone are mediated non-genomically through different molecular biological modes of action. Therefore, the precise therapeutic manipulation of progesterone actions in the male requires completely new endocrine-pharmacological approaches.
PROGESTERONE AND SLEEP
Intramuscular injection of 200 mg progesterone produces mild sedative-like effects in men and women147. A single oral administration of 300 mg micronized progesterone at 21.30 in-duced a significant increase in the amount of non-rapid eye movement (non-REM) sleep in nine healthy male volunteers. The EEG spectral power during non-REM sleep showed a significant decrease in the slow wave frequency range (0.4–4.3 Hz), whereas the spectral power in the higher frequency range (4 15 Hz) tended to be elevated. Some of the observed changes in the sleeping pattern and sleep-EEG power spectra are similar to those induced by agonistic modulators of the GABAA receptor complex and appear to be mediated in part by the conversion of progester-one into its GABA-active, 5a-reduced metabolites148. The oral administration of pro-gesterone at the same dosage and at the same time (300 mg in the evening) produced no consistent effects on attention performance. Thus, dosages of progesterone that are sufficient to modulate sleep in men are not likely to exert sedative hangover effects149. It seems that only progesterone includ-ing its 5a-reduced metabolites is involved in positive sleep regulation, whereas, in contrast to this, the synthetic progestin megestrol acetate reduces REM sleep150.
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Yes, he gives great information and is one of top doctor's to treat thyroid,
Before starting lugol's iodine drops I checked my iodine level and saw that it was low. I began with 2 drops of lugols which equals to 2 mg iodine/3 mg iodide. Checked my iodine levels once again and there was a slight improvement but it was still low. This is when I decided to try 3 drops which equal to 3 mg iodine/4.5mg iodide and my iodine level improved but I was not feeling optimal. At this point, I decided to take the high iodine route and this is when I felt a huge difference. I felt more energetic and I did not have that 2 to 3 pm or 5 to 6 pm drop of sudden energy. Because of the instant relief that I noticed I have decided to stick with the high iodine consumption. I weight lift 5 days a week and I have an active job so I deplete my iodine and selenium levels a lot more than the average person.
Yes, I also consume brazil nuts, seafood, red meat, and white meat to get as much selenium as I can but I also supplement with 100mcg of selenium. Together with my multi vitamin, my selenium intake is 300mcg per day since my multi's have 200mcg. This keeps my level in the mid range, if I recall correctly.
I am glad you enjoyed the attachment. I LOVE the preg cream (25mg) because I do not break out like a teenager going through puberty. I feel very calm/at ease with the cream. When I was taking the slow release lipid matrix oral form I did not see a difference whatsoever. I was just taking it to help my adrenals and I would get bad cystic acne from just 12.5mg.
At the moment I apply the preg cream once a day in the morning. I will be re testing in about 3 monts. I will keep you posted on my results and if my dose increases.
So u currently take lugol’s drops, not the iodine tablets? What % is it, 2%? How many drops are u currently taking per day? And do u spread them out? Thanks for all the info. I literally watched every video he had on iodine after talking to u last
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
I stay away from supplementing iodine.
You probably know high levels of iodine can cause thyroid dysfunction, including causing a goiter.
By active job, if you do sweat a lot during the day, that can cause iodine deficiency so that might be why you need more iodine than average.
For a short time I did take "Iodine Complete Complex for Thyroid Support by SuperDosing" which has 12.5 mg iodine with selenium.
This caused my ft3 to decline from 2.8 pg/mL to 2.1 pg/mL, at the bottom of the range and close to being clinically hypothyroid. Stopping the supplement returned my FT3 to 2.8.
Just a word of caution, superdosing of anything is very tricky and iodine supplementation can cause the very problem you are trying to solve. It obviously seems to work for you, but it won't work the same way for everyone.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
The last time i measured progesterone was on 11/15/2019 and it was 0.5 ng/mL and labcorp had the range of 0.0 - 0.5 ng/mL at that time.
I supplement with over the counter progesterone cream on the theory it should help with sleep. For a time I was taking too much (~22 mg (1.3 grams). and it made me dizzy and sleepy during the daytime. I cut back to 40 mg by weight, do the math an it should be ~6.77 mg. Check the label probably different products differ in strength.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I am closing this thread since it moved away from the subject matter. Guys, please help to keep this forum organized!
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